Necktie

References

• Windsor Knot
• Pratt Knot
• Keffiyeh
• Almost Plausible: Resolution
• Robin Williams
• Almost Plausible: Padlock
• Almost Plausible: Birdhouse
• Almost Plausible: Birthday Candle
• Almost Plausible: Newspaper
• Almost Plausible: Chocolate
• Almost Plausible: Chicken Noodle Soup
• Mini-Me
• Walk Hard: The Dewey Cox Story
• Jensen Ackles
• Supernatural
• Here’s The Difference Between A Coffin And A Casket
• Malcolm in the Middle
• Bechdel Test
• The Big Chill
• Kevin Costner
• Almost Plausible: Bratwurst
• Jerry Maguire

Corrections

Shep managed to track down the knot he referenced at the beginning of the episode (the Pratt Knot, linked above), but it turns out the knot wasn’t actually new at the time he read about it. The knot was invented in the late 1950s, and the article Shep read (in either 1989 or 1990) was just popularizing it. There was a New York Times article about the Pratt Knot in 1989, which led to an AP syndicated article about how to tie it, which is what Shep read in the San Jose Mercury News.

Transcript

[Intro music begins]

[Emily]
What are- You two are just so, like, what? Like, you- I feel like-

[Shep]
What? What?

[Emily]
I feel like-

[Shep]
What are we? What are we?

[Emily]
I feel like you don’t like the idea of, like, these relationships where people love and support each other and it’s not-

[Thomas]
I was agreeing with you.

[Shep]
Yeah, she can’t see that, Thomas. She judges us-

[Emily]
As one.

[Shep]
Based on our gender.

[Intro music]

[Thomas]
Hey, story fans. Welcome to Almost Plausible, the podcast where we take ordinary objects and them in movie. I’m Thomas J. Brown, and hot on the heels of our episode about a Cummerbund, here’s one about a Necktie. Playing dress up with me yet again are Emily-

[Emily]
Hey, guys!

[Thomas]
And F. Paul Shepard.

[Shep]
I didn’t even think that they were both clothing items.

[Thomas]
Very closely related.

[Emily]
And parts of suits.

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Shep]
Yeah.

[Thomas]
Well, in our Cummerbund episode, I mentioned I hadn’t ever worn a cummerbund. But necktie? I’ve worn plenty of those. So, how are you guys at tying neckties? Do you know any fancy knots?

[Emily]
Um, I can do a Double Windsor.

[Thomas]
That’s pretty fancy.

[Emily]
Yeah, that was about as fancy as I got.

[Shep]
I have been wearing neckties since high school. I went to a private high school. And so, I’ve just grown up- My father wore neckties for work. So, that was like instilled in me at a young age. I remember, this is going to date me, but I was a newspaper delivery boy in the ’90s, and there was a new necktie knot that was so like amazing because it was perfectly symmetrical-

[Thomas]
Hmm.

[Shep]
That it was in the newspaper. So, people talked about it. You know, the inside was the fabric turned the outside in, if that makes sense.

[Emily]
Mm, yeah.

[Thomas]
Hmm.

[Shep]
But you don’t see it because it’s under the collar of the shirt, but doing that helped make it perfectly symmetrical.

[Thomas]
Interesting.

[Shep]
And I was in high school at the time and I was wearing neckties. And so, like, I learned that knot because it was in the newspaper. And then I just learned so many variations of knots.

[Emily]
Yeah, when I started working in corporate offices, I went through a phase where I wore bow ties and neckties for absolutely no reason.

[Shep]
Yep. It makes you feel good.

[Emily]
Yeah, I thought I looked awesome.

[Shep]
Yes.

[Thomas]
You probably did.

[Emily]
Actually, I do think I was really cute. But it was also hipster era, so-

[Thomas]
Hmm.

[Emily]
Like, not only did I look cute, I did it before it was cool.

[Shep]
You say that, like, hipster era has ended, and that’s in the past.

[Emily]
Well I mean, hipster attitude is forever, but I feel like the hipster uniform has changed enough that you don’t recognize it in the world as obvious as it was in the past.

[Thomas]
I feel like that’s probably true.

[Emily]
Yeah, there’s not a lot of keffiyehs out there.

[Thomas]
Not as many, no.

[Emily]
No. I mean, I still have mine because I’m never giving that up, and will bring it out from time to time. Because I’m still cool.

[Thomas]
And proving that, you’re pitching first. So-

[Shep]
Ha ha ha.

[Emily]
Well, mine are short and sweet. So, buckle up buttercups. A serial killer, surprise, that kills his victims-

[Shep]
What?!

[Thomas]
You know, have we had a- It’s been a while, hasn’t it?

[Emily]
It has been a while since I did a serial killer one. So, it’s a serial killer that kills his victims with novelty neckties. You know, like ducks, and grinch, or-

[Thomas]
Right.

[Shep]
Cats in space.

[Emily]
Keyboard. You know-

[Shep]
Fishing puns.

[Emily]
Yeah, different one for every victim. Actually, I like the idea of, like, he kills the musician with the piano tie.

[Thomas]
Hmm.

[Emily]
He kills the fisherman with the fish tie. He kills the golfer with the golf tie. That might be fun. Anyway, or the next victim, like it’s a clue for the next victim.

[Shep]
Yeah.

[Emily]
It’s like the next victim will be a fisherman. The next one will be a golfer. Okay.

[Thomas]
Is there a necktie where the cravat is like a salmon or something?

[Emily]
Yep.

[Shep]
Yes.

[Thomas]
Yes.

[Emily]
Mm hmm.

[Thomas]
I like that.

[Emily]
Trout, salmon-

[Thomas]
That’s funny.

[Emily]
Big mouth bass. I think you can get them all.

[Thomas]
That’s great.

[Emily]
I wonder if you get a swordfish, because that one would be awesome. And second, a cursed clown necktie causes Kevin, an average Joe pawn shop owner, to become a homicidal maniac. Now, is he possessed? No, he’s still himself. He’s just now a homicidal maniac. So, it’s not the same as the last one at all.

[Thomas]
Because it has clown virus on it.

[Emily]
Yeah, it’s got clown virus on it. Exactly. And if he takes it off, he’s still homicidal maniac.

[Thomas]
Sure.

[Emily]
That’s what makes it different.

[Shep]
Yeah, wearing it once permanently infected him with the clown virus.

[Emily]
Yep, exactly. So, it’s not at all Cummerbund with a violent twist.

[Thomas]
It’s very different. Yes.

[Shep]
Very different.

[Emily]
Very different. All right, Shep, let’s hear what you have.

[Shep]
Okay. A widow, clearing out her late husband’s clothes, finds a fancy tie he had been saving for a special occasion that never came and he never wore. She wears it to his memorial.

[Emily]
And then gets picked up by a handsome sailor. And it’s actually a porno!

[Shep]
Yep.

[Emily]
Chicka wow-wow

[Shep]
So, yeah, this one writes itself.

[Thomas]
I thought Shep was going to say he got clown-, uh, she was going to get clown disease from it.

[Emily]
I mean…

[Thomas]
Clown virus. Sorry, clown virus.

[Emily]
Okay, so she wasn’t picked up by a sailor. She was picked up by a clown. So, she got double clown virus.

[Thomas]
Or a mime.

[Shep]
So, her husband was killed by a clown.

[Emily]
Yep.

[Thomas]
Ah, there you go.

[Shep]
It got infected. The tie got infected.

[Thomas]
And he comes back to life as a zombie mime.

[Emily]
Yeah.

[Thomas]
Right? Is that…? You know what? I might actually watch that movie.

[Emily]
I would watch that.

[Thomas]
That sounds pretty funny.

[Emily]
I would, I would totally watch that.

[Shep]
So, the thing about the zombie mime virus as it spreads is you don’t hear them coming. It’s way more dangerous than zombies.

[Emily]
So, much worse.

[Thomas]
They just sneak up on you. Ah!

[Shep]
They do the thing where they’re there’s like…

[Thomas]
Invisible box?

[Shep]
Right, except it’s at your window. They’re pressing against the glass at your window. It’s real glass this time.

[Thomas]
That’s funny.

[Shep]
All right, you guys are selling me on this one. Okay. A businessman joins a cult-like corporation where the patterns and knots of the ties they wear hold deeper meaning.

[Emily]
Like which “conversation pit” they get to use at the retreat?

[Shep]
Right. I was like, it’s like rankings.

[Emily]
Yeah, no, I get it. Yeah, yeah.

[Shep]
Anyway, those are the pitches I have. Thomas, what do you have?

[Thomas]
Well, you guys, your pitches are a sentence each, basically, and mine are a little longer, but-

[Shep]
Yeah, you gotta leave room.

[Thomas]
I’m trying.

[Shep]
Gotta leave room for Jesus.

[Thomas]
I’m trying. Never. A middle-aged man must clean out his late father’s closet, which is filled floor to ceiling, wall to wall, with thousands of neckties. His dad was known around town as “Necktie Guy”, and now it falls to the man to pick the tie his father will be buried in. In the search, he discovers a box full of ties his father never opened, including one he sent as a gift. The man struggles to choose, as he and his father were very close, and he views this task as one last opportunity to disappoint the old man. But his father has to be buried in something, and he has to be the one to choose it, though what he’s really searching for isn’t the right tie, but a sign that he was ever enough.

[Emily]
I’m sad now.

[Shep]
Yeah.

[Thomas]
Yeah, it’s, uh, it’s definitely a slower, bit more downer, thinky drama. But I liked the image of the closet floor to ceiling filled with neckties.

[Emily]
That is a cool, cool image.

[Shep]
And they’re all wacky neckties because his dad was a fun-loving guy. You got that contrast of the theme of the movie-

[Thomas]
Hmm. Yeah.

[Shep]
Which is sad, and the dad who was played by Robin Williams-

[Thomas]
Oh!

[Emily]
No! Stop!

[Shep]
Who was very comic and funny and friendly to everyone except the son he was disappointed in.

[Thomas]
And there’s like one giant, like triple oversized tie, and then the son puts it on and he gets clown virus from it. And-

[Shep]
Yep.

[Emily]
And then he goes on a homicidal rage.

[Shep]
Yep.

[Thomas]
All right, my other pitch: On the morning of the biggest job interview of his life, a man spills coffee on his tie. Out of nowhere, a mysterious old salesman appears with a briefcase full of neckties and an oddly serious warning. Choose carefully, because the tie will change your life. Half convinced it’s a gag, the man picks one and lands the job he’s been chasing for years. But, the promotion comes with long hours and constant travel, and his girlfriend eventually gets fed up. Now he’s searching for the old man, convinced a second tie can fix what the first one broke.

[Shep]
Oh, so we’re not rooting for him because he is dumb.

[Emily]
One change. Instead of a mysterious man, how about a little old crazy lady?

[Shep]
Crazy lady? Who’s going to buy ties from a crazy lady? Just a little old lady.

[Emily]
A little old lady.

[Shep]
She also sells Locks.

[Emily]
Yes.

[Shep]
She also sells…

[Thomas]
Yeah, yeah, oh, I see, I see, yeah.

[Emily]
She sells something else, too. I can’t remember what else she sold.

[Shep]
Candles?

[Thomas]
Yeah, I don’t remember.

[Shep]
I don’t remember.

[Emily]
I don’t remember either. I know she sold something else as well. Birdhouses? I don’t know.

[Shep]
Have we done a Candle episode or a Birdhouse episode or are we misremembering?

[Emily]
No, we did birdhouse.

[Thomas]
We did birdhouse.

[Emily]
It was bird, prince and princess.

[Shep]
Oh, that’s right. It wasn’t a birdhouse-sized birdhouse. It was a house with a bird in it.

[Emily]
With a bird in it. Yes, birdhouse.

[Shep]
What a twist.

[Emily]
Candle was birthday candle.

[Thomas]
It’s a good episode.

[Shep]
Ah!

[Thomas]
Oh!

[Emily]
And it was the life.

[Thomas]
That’s right.

[Emily]
Yeah.

[Shep]
That wasn’t her.

[Emily]
No.

[Shep]
That was the mysterious grandpa-

[Emily]
Yeah.

[Shep]
From Newspaper.

[Thomas]
Yeah, yeah.

[Shep]
We have a lot of recurring characters in our pitches.

[Emily]
I like that we have this weird little universe out there.

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Shep]
The Almost-Plausible-verse.

[Emily]
Oh, it was a Necklace. She sold him a necklace.

[Shep]
Oh yeah!

[Thomas]
Oh, with the locket?

[Emily]
Yeah.

[Shep]
Yes.

[Thomas]
The APC.

[Shep]
Yep. The Plausiverse.

[Thomas]
Plausiverse. Ah, that’s good. All right, well, those are my pitches. Which one do we like the best?

[Emily]
Well, I like the sad one, honestly. Because I feel like we haven’t done a sad, sappy one in a while.

[Thomas]
It’s been a while, yeah.

[Shep]
Yeah, because I’d never vote for them because I don’t like to cry.

[Emily]
Yeah, but you’re really good at making us cry. I mean, Chicken Soup.

[Shep]
I thought you gonna say, “You’re really good at crying. Like, I’ve seen lots of guys cry, but you are a pro. If there were a gold medal Olympics for crying…”

[Thomas]
Shep, I was to make basically all the same jokes, so-

[Emily]
Also, the widow wearing her husband’s tie to the memorial.

[Shep]
Also, sad.

[Emily]
Is it also sad?

[Shep]
I mean, it sure sounds sad.

[Emily]
Well, I mean, there’s just so much not there that we could-

[Thomas]
Well, we established the whole clown virus thing, so-

[Emily]
Well, this is true.

[Shep]
So, what I liked about the middle-aged man sad one was I liked the contrast that I had proposed-

[Emily]
Mm.

[Shep]
Where the dad is funny and charming and everyone likes him, the Robin Williams character. And then the son just feels nothing but his dad’s disappointment and that he was never enough.

[Emily]
Now, if the dad is fun-loving and caring, because I’ve seen this trope a few times, why is he disappointed in the son? Like, is the son just making that all up in his head? Because dad never understood his seriousness and his desire to be, you know, whatever.

[Thomas]
Yeah, I think that’s kind of what I imagined: was that like the son had it in his head that he was a disappointment. Maybe there’s a sibling who is more like the dad, and so they kind of seemed to get along better because they were always like doing bits and riffing off of each other and kind of like… I don’t know, there was like a connection there that he didn’t feel with the dad-

[Emily]
Right.

[Thomas]
And so, he maybe doesn’t, there’s like maybe unseen things the dad was doing that were beneficial to him as they were growing up.

[Emily]
Yeah, okay, I get that because my sister and I, feel like at some point had that. Not that she felt like a disappointment to our father, but she didn’t feel connected to him.

[Shep]
I disagree completely, and I think that he should have actually been a disappointment to his dad because that’s a thing that happens.

[Emily]
No, it is, but I want to know what about him is disappointing to this fun-loving dad who’s nice to everybody in town.

[Shep]
Because the other son was more like the dad. He’s charming. He’s witty. Maybe they worked as salesmen and they could charm customers together.

[Thomas]
Hmm.

[Shep]
And then the other son, he’s introspective and thoughtful, but he’s awkward in conversation. The dad can’t have the same relationship with him that he has with the other sibling. It’s not just in his head, is what I’m saying.

[Thomas]
So, like, the dad had this idea of what he wanted in a kid. The first son comes along, doesn’t have that kind of a personality. He wants a Mini-Me, basically.

[Shep]
Yes.

[Thomas]
And then the second son comes along and is that.

[Shep]
Yep. That’s good that it’s the second son. So, like, the main character’s early childhood, he gets all this affection from his dad-

[Thomas]
Oh, yeah.

[Shep]
Because his dad’s trying to make him the kid that he has imagined.

[Thomas]
Mm hmm.

[Shep]
And then he later has a second son that is that kid. And so, the main character feels this loss of attention and affection that his dad is now giving his younger brother.

[Thomas]
And so, what is our main character’s arc then?

[Shep]
Look, sometimes people just have shitty parents. It’s not your fault.

[Thomas]
But maybe that’s it. They’re coming to the realization that it’s not his fault.

[Shep]
Yeah.

[Emily]
So, we’re not gonna get that satisfying “I really wasn’t as big a disappointment to my father. He saw what I had to offer kind of thing later. Even though I was a disappointment, he still loved me.”

[Shep]
No, it’s definitely the Dewey Cox Story.

[Emily]
Okay.

[Shep]
“Wrong son died.”

[Thomas]
Yeah, I mean, I’m not opposed to that. I think that’s fine. I just want to make sure that we have a point B that we’re going to. Some sort of a conclusion.

[Emily]
The point B is that nobody, his father never loved him, nothing changes, life sucks, the end.

[Shep]
Okay. How about him and his wife? His wife wants to have kids, but he doesn’t because he’s afraid he’ll-

[Thomas]
Hmm.

[Shep]
Be like his dad was. And so, his arc is: come to terms with just because your dad was a bad parent doesn’t mean you’re going to be a bad parent. You can have kids. Or maybe it’s like, you know what? Kids are overrated. Don’t have kids anymore. Kids are overrated. The world’s overpopulated.

[Emily]
I don’t think you understand economics.

[Thomas]
Right, did they have like a family business, and he was like the accountant? The dad and the younger son were like the fun sales guys, and he was like sitting back in the office doing the books.

[Shep]
Oh, yeah. The business is called whatever so-and-so and son.

[Thomas]
Oh yeah.

[Shep]
Which was originally him.

[Thomas]
Or was it originally our main character’s dad and his dad?

[Shep]
Oh, yeah, yeah. And so, his, him and his dad were the same. And so, when he had a son, it’s like, “Oh, it’ll be just like me and my dad.” And then his kid, his first son, isn’t like him at all.

[Thomas]
Yeah, and they don’t change it to “Sons” plural.

[Shep]
No, he doesn’t change it to “Sons” plural.

[Thomas]
Right. Yeah.

[Shep]
He keeps it as “Son” singular.

[Thomas]
Yeah, yeah.

[Shep]
And it’s now referencing not him, but his younger brother. Just gotta twist that knife.

[Thomas]
So, does the younger brother now own this shop?

[Shep]
Yeah. In fact, the younger brother is the one that knew that the dad was sick because they were close-

[Thomas]
Hmm.

[Shep]
And the dad didn’t want people to know, but told him.

[Thomas]
And our guy has, like, moved out of town years ago.

[Shep]
Yes. Yep. He comes back-

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Shep]
For the memorial and that brings up all these memories.

[Thomas]
Why is it this guy’s job, our main character’s job, to pick this necktie? Especially if the dad is known as “Necktie Guy”? It feels like it’s kind of an important thing. Is the mom still around and she tells the younger brother, like, “You’ve got to give him something.”

[Emily]
The younger brother is an emotional mess and just cannot handle it-

[Thomas]
Hmm.

[Emily]
And puts it on his big brother because he’s more responsible.

[Shep]
Or the younger brother has that emotional intelligence and is, like, trying to help his older brother, who he cares for. And he’s like, “Why don’t you, I know you and dad didn’t feel very close. Why don’t you pick out his tie? He’s “Necktie Guy”. And you pick out a tie for him to wear.”

[Emily]
Is the end choice, in my mind, I want it to be, but you know, you have opinions. Is the end choice that he picks the one that he sent that was unopened? Like once he gets his closure?

[Thomas]
I don’t think so.

[Emily]
Okay.

[Thomas]
Like, that wasn’t my gut because that to me almost feels like “You will wear this tie, you will wear this tie forever.”

[Shep]
Maybe that’s his first instinct.

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Shep]
And so, that’s the tie he initially chooses. And then his growth, his arc in the movie is like, “You know what? That’s ridiculous. That’s kind of insane. And in fact, I’ll pick this other tie that I know is my dad’s favorite tie that, in fact, my younger brother gave him for Father’s Day.” And you can see him in several photos wearing that tie.

[Thomas]
Hmm. I mean, that would definitely demonstrate growth as a character, right?

[Shep]
Right.

[Thomas]
So, we have our main character. Presumably, his spouse is there. The brother is there. The brother has a spouse and a son, maybe.

[Emily]
Yeah.

[Shep]
Oh, yeah. The brother is going to take over the business. It’s going to be so-and-so and son again.

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Emily]
And his son is more like the uncle, the main character, but the brother, like, at first he thinks the brother is like the father in their relationship.

[Shep]
Because he’s like the father in his humor and his wit.

[Emily]
Yeah. But then as he watches them together later, you know, as it progresses, he sees that his brother is actually, like, encouraging the boy to be his own person and-

[Shep]
Yes.

[Emily]
Find his own way in the world and-

[Shep]
Yes.

[Emily]
Sees that his brother is breaking that cycle.

[Shep]
Yeah, because his brother saw how his dad was-

[Emily]
Yeah.

[Shep]
Acting towards his older brother. And was like, “I don’t want that for my son. I don’t want that kind of relationship.” So, really, they’re both critiquing their father.

[Emily and Thomas]
Yeah.

[Emily]
I think there would be a confrontation between them at some point where the older brother, you know, is “You were dad’s favorite. You always did what (blah, blah, blah).” And he talks about how the younger brother would bring up, “Yeah, we were similar. It’s not my fault that I liked these things. It’s just what I liked. It is his fault for not appreciating you.”

[Shep]
Yep.

[Thomas]
Right, he’s like, “Why are you mad at me?”

[Emily]
Yeah, yeah.

[Thomas]
“I didn’t ask for this. I didn’t choose this.”

[Emily]
Yeah.

[Thomas]
Like, “I wasn’t into those things because dad was into them.” Like-

[Emily]
Yeah, exactly. “I didn’t choose this because I wanted dad’s affection.”

[Thomas]
Yes, yes.

[Emily]
“I chose this because that’s just who I am.”

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Emily]
“Just like you’re just who you are.”

[Thomas]
“Oh, I’m just who I am, am I?”

[Shep]
All right, we got it.

[Thomas]
Yeah, I think so.

[Shep]
What are we missing?

[Emily]
The sex scenes.

[Thomas]
The brothers finally kiss.

[Emily]
Is it Jensen Ackles and uh-

[Shep]
Oh, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It’s the Winchesters.

[Emily]
It’s the Winchester brothers, right?

[Shep]
Yep. Look, when they were teenagers, they practiced kissing so they would be better at kissing girls. Not in a gay way.

[Emily]
They can’t have kids, so why does it matter?

[Shep]
Right.

[Thomas]
I just had a thought of another scene where there’s the… a wake or a reception or whatever, and they’re handing out the neckties, the dad’s neckties, to people who attend the funeral service or the wake or whatever, you know, as like a “Thank you for coming. He would want you to have this,” sort of a thing.

[Shep]
Because otherwise, what are they going to do with all these neckties?

[Emily]
Right.

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Shep]
He’s got a full closet-

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Shep]
Just for neckties. It’s kind of absurd. Like, we can donate them. That, maybe that’s a thing they talk about during the movie is what do we do with all these neckties? Try and sell them. Donate them. Whatever. Maybe they even try to donate them to some place, you know, a homeless shelter that tries to get people back into the job force or whatever. And they’re like, “We will never need this many neckties.”

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Shep]
“So, thank you, but no, we’re not going to take them.” And so, they came up with the idea of handing them out. That’s the end when the memorial is.

[Thomas]
Yes.

[Shep]
So, you can see the clever solution they came up with to get rid of the neckties.

[Thomas]
Yeah, this is like a running thing throughout the movie is, “Oh my god, we have, you know, ten thousand neckties,” or whatever the number is. Like, “What are we-” It’s probably too many, but “What are we do with these?”

[Shep]
Right, whatever.

[Thomas]
I could see our character, because he’s like a very buttoned-down practical kind of guy, he brings it up, like, “What are we do with all these neckties? This is so many neckties.” You know, he’s like digging around. That’s when he pulls out the box. He’s like, “Look! This is a box full of neckties he didn’t ever open.” And that’s when he sees his one sitting there. And so then yeah throughout the movie, he’s maybe calling around to places like, “Hey, I have all these neckties. I can drop them off.” And they’re like, “No, don’t do that.”

[Shep]
Yeah, “We’re not a necktie disposal service. So, thank you, but no thank you.”

[Thomas]
Now, is it our main character’s idea to hand out the neckties? Or maybe it’s the nephew’s idea to hand out the neckties?

[Emily]
I think-

[Shep]
Ooh!

[Emily]
Either the nephew or the mom.

[Thomas]
I like the nephew because it’s almost like, it’s almost like our character came up with the idea.

[Emily]
Right, right.

[Shep]
Yeah, I like the nephew doing it.

[Emily]
So, would it be too cheesy?

[Shep]
No, cheese it up.

[Emily]
So, the necktie he bought his dad that he never opened and never wore. How do we feel about the brother wearing that to the memorial service?

[Shep]
Oh, I love it.

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Shep]
Yeah, that’s not cheesy. That’s, that’s sweet.

[Emily]
Yeah.

[Shep]
Because you see the brother presented as like he’s the father-

[Emily]
Yeah.

[Thomas]
Hmm.

[Shep]
But he’s not. He’s different. And this is one of the ways that he’s demonstrating how he’s different is when he learns that his brother, his older brother, gave this necktie to their father and the father never even opened it. Then he takes it upon himself to wear it. And you don’t even have to, like, call it out.

[Emily]
Point it out. Yeah, yeah.

[Shep]
Yeah, it’s just a thing that he does.

[Emily]
Yeah, like the audience will notice because it’s a very distinct tie.

[Shep]
The audience might notice.

[Emily]
Yeah, well, that’s what I mean.

[Shep]
And if they don’t, it’s fine.

[Emily]
But if they do, they cry a little bit harder.

[Shep]
Yes.

[Thomas]
Mm. We get those tears.

[Shep]
Delicious.

[Thomas]
We haven’t had the audience’s tears in a while.

[Emily]
We are losing our powers.

[Thomas]
Yeah, yeah.

[Shep]
Yep.

[Thomas]
You know, it’s not just a matter of demonstrating that he’s different from the dad, but also demonstrating the love he has for his brother.

[Shep]
Yes.

[Thomas]
He knows this is a thing that will be meaningful. And so, he’s happy to do that.

[Shep]
Also, he has the same, a similar problem, not the same, but a similar problem that the dad had, which is he doesn’t know how to connect to his brother.

[Thomas]
Hmm, yeah.

[Shep]
They don’t share the same interests. You know, what is it, what is the business? It’s a car dealership or something.

[Emily]
Sure.

[Thomas]
Whatever it is.

[Shep]
Car dealers always wear ties.

[Thomas]
Yeah, yeah.

[Shep]
It’s like, that’s a thing. And he’s into cars and his brother isn’t. And so, they don’t have a lot to talk about. There’s not a lot of overlap. So-

[Thomas]
And so, maybe he’s unsure how to reach out and make that initial connection. Our main character, kind of has a wall up anyway. He, like I said, he’s intentionally left town. He’s distancing himself from his family and this business and everything on purpose.

[Shep]
Yes.

[Thomas]
So, yeah, I think it’s a great gesture. And perhaps at the end of the movie, we see that they’re making plans for an upcoming holiday where family would typically get together. and-

[Shep]
Flag day.

[Thomas]
Arbor Day, that’s our, yeah-

[Shep]
Arbor Day, obviously.

[Thomas]
But you know, he could say something like, “Are you guys going to be able to come to Thanksgiving this year?” And he’s like, “I think actually we can.”

[Emily]
Yeah.

[Thomas]
Something along those lines. And maybe the wife is like, “Thank fucking god.”

[Emily]
“I get tired of my family.”

[Thomas]
The two wives look at each other like, “Right? Jeez. Finally, these two.” Because they’ve been talking.

[Shep]
That is the thing that you can show at the beginning when the brother comes to town because he hasn’t been there in a while. When the wives see each other, they talk to each other about having not seen each other in such a long time.

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Shep]
And this is telling the audience that he doesn’t come to town very often without having to tell the audience.

[Thomas]
Yeah. “He’s missed the last ten Thanksgivings.” Yeah.

[Shep]
Right.

[Thomas]
I was thinking, I want to make a small change to the handing out the ties thing is when people show up at the service, they all get the ties. They all want people wearing those ties for the actual funeral service and stuff. So, you’ve got all these people dressed in black with, you know, fish ties and-

[Shep]
Yep.

[Thomas]
Colorful Looney Tunes ties and stuff like that.

[Shep]
Great. I love the visual.

[Thomas]
All right, well, let’s take a break here. And when we come back, maybe there’ll be more story for our movie? I don’t know.

[Shep]
We’re just filling in scenes here and there.

[Thomas]
Yeah yeah. This might be the most fleshed out movie we’ve done. We’ll find out when we come back.

[Break]

[Thomas]
All right, we are back. I kind of feel like we’ve got the whole movie nailed down, but did we come up with any ideas during the break?

[Emily]
I do. I have one!

[Thomas]
Okay.

[Emily]
Because when you guys-

[Shep]
I don’t like it.

[Emily]
Shsh it! Let me say it before you turn it down, geez. So, we talked about having everybody wear the necktie during the memorial that they pass out at the beginning, right?

[Thomas]
Sure. Yeah.

[Emily]
What if they also have, you know, instead of the big bucket of roses or whatever when people lay them-

[Thomas]
Hmm.

[Emily]
It’s just the ties laid over the side so they can lay the ties over the casket as they’re lowering him.

[Thomas]
He probably has a bunch of ties with like flowers on them.

[Shep]
Yep.

[Emily]
Yeah, right?

[Thomas]
So, that that’s what people are throwing down there, the ties of… Because and nobody questions it. They’re like, “Yeah, there’s like five thousand ties to get rid of. We totally understand.”

[Shep]
Yep.

[Emily]
Yeah, yeah, “We’ll bury half of them with him.”

[Shep]
So, they’re either ties of flowers or they’re just red ties.

[Emily]
Yeah.

[Shep]
So, you have that mix.

[Thomas]
Yeah, there you go. Yeah.

[Shep]
And it’s again a thing that you show, but don’t, nobody talks about.

[Emily]
No, yeah, it’s just you see the scene where they’re at the grave site and instead of those buckets of roses or carnations-

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Emily]
It’s a pile of ties.

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Shep]
Yep.

[Thomas]
And then instead of the backhoe tipping in dirt, it’s-

[Emily]
More ties.

[Shep]
It’s all ties.

[Thomas]
Just more ties.

[Emily]
Just ties all the way down.

[Thomas]
His coffin is not lined with silk. It’s lined with ties. They’ve got, they’ve reused them.

[Emily]
It’s tie-shaped, not coffin-shaped.

[Shep]
I mean, coffin is kind of a tie.

[Emily]
Which is old-style coffin-shaped.

[Shep]
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Instead of being a lozenge-

[Emily]
Yeah.

[Shep]
It’s that classic coffin shape, which is like a tie.

[Thomas]
What is the other word? Coffin and-

[Emily]
Sarcophagus? Casket!

[Shep]
Casket.

[Thomas]
Casket. Right. Coffin has the shape. Casket is a rectangle.

[Emily]
Yeah.

[Shep]
Ah, right, right, right. So, are we going to give any of the characters’ names or talk about any of the other scenes?

[Thomas]
I feel like we should.

[Emily]
Well, you gotta have that heartwarming scene between the wives, not just where “It’s been so long,” but do they reveal them and the mom have a conversation about the guys and their unwillingness to mend fences? And the one wife brings up, “Well, he wants to. Your husband’s just being the asshole. And won’t.”

[Shep]
Hmm.

[Emily]
Then they get in fight, and-

[Thomas]
No, I don’t think the women are-

[Shep]
And they pull each other’s hair.

[Emily]
Yeah pull other’s hair-

[Shep]
No, no, no, no.

[Emily]
And there’s wrestling and the mom gets the hose from the kitchen sink and sprays them down to them make them stop.

[Shep]
So, is this, this is Malcolm in the Middle?

[Emily]
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Shep]
Or is this-

[Emily]
That’s where I got that scene from.

[Shep]
Understated, understated.

[Emily]
No, no, I was not like the full argument was a joke, but like having them have more of a conversation about the husband’s relationship with the father and-

[Shep]
I mean, I don’t want to get all Bechdel on you, but maybe the wives could talk about themselves and each other and not talk about their husbands.

[Emily]
I forget about the Bechdel test in things like this because the main characters being the men.

[Shep]
I mean, the perspective is the men, but the women are the main characters of their own lives. And so-

[Emily]
Yeah.

[Shep]
When they talk to each other-

[Emily]
It doesn’t have to be about men. I know.

[Shep]
They, they can talk about how they haven’t seen each other in a long time and lament that they probably won’t get together for the holidays, which is a shame because they’re missing big chunks of each other’s lives. They like each other. Maybe the wife of the son that moved away is also from this town. And so, the wives knew each other from before. They, they don’t know each other through their husbands. They already knew each other. Small town.

[Emily]
Yeah, it’s always a small town. Have you ever noticed that? These never take place in big cities.

[Shep]
Only one car dealership, and it’s Bechdel and Son.

[Thomas]
Well, if we want to pass the Bechdel test, we’d better give these women names.

[Shep]
That’s right. They have to be named characters.

[Thomas]
Have to be named characters, yeah.

[Emily]
Uh, Cassandra and Lonnie.

[Shep]
Lonnie?

[Emily]
I don’t know.

[Thomas]
A good small-town name.

[Emily]
Cassie and Lonnie. Cassie and Sarah.

[Shep]
Can’t change to Sarah now.

[Emily]
Okay, Cassie and Lonnie.

[Shep]
We’re going to take the first name that you say, so you better be right the first time. We can’t go back and edit stuff. So. This is live. This is live for every person listening. We have to record it again.

[Emily]
Hey, that’s how I named my children. That’s why one is Son of a Bitch and the other is Goddamn It.

[Shep]
That, Son of a Bitch is your daughter? Is that-?

[Emily]
Yes. Yep. Will there be like flashback scenes where we see-

[Shep]
Yes.

[Emily]
Younger main character with father and brother and always feeling left out or weird?

[Shep]
You have to have flashbacks, otherwise we never see the father.

[Thomas]
Hmm.

[Shep]
Because he’s dead at the beginning.

[Emily]
There’s lots of movies where we never see the dead character. I mean, Big Chill. You only see Kevin Costner one time in a coffin.

[Shep]
Or is it a casket?

[Emily]
It’s a casket. You’re correct.

[Thomas]
I do feel like flashbacks make sense here because this whole story is about remembering his childhood and how he grew up and his relationship with his father. So, I think it makes sense to see that.

[Shep]
Also, Chicken Soup was lots of flashbacks, and this is kind of our next Chicken Soup-

[Thomas]
Hmm.

[Shep]
Help You Cry movie, so.

[Emily]
What was Bratwurst? Were there a lot in Bratwurst too?

[Shep]
Were there? I thought Bratwurst was the one where he was dying.

[Emily]
Yeah, you’re right. We didn’t do flashbacks in that one.

[Thomas]
Yeah, no, I don’t think so.

[Shep]
So, the scene I wanted to add was the main character and the nephew, and them discovering that they have a lot of shared interests. And maybe he can realize, “Oh, I would have known this sooner if I had kept in contact. But because I left town and tried to put my past behind me, I missed out on all this.”

[Emily]
Oh, yeah, because the nephew’s really impressed with the uncle and things he knows and like maybe even asks, “How come I don’t remember you,” or something like that? Because they’ve met at some point. I feel like the brother would at least show up to see the baby because the wife would make him.

[Shep]
How old are the characters?

[Emily]
I don’t know. How old’s the kid?

[Shep]
He’s twelve and he last saw his uncle when he was six. So, six years ago.

[Thomas]
That works.

[Shep]
And he doesn’t remember it, really.

[Thomas]
I mean, maybe he, like, he’s like, “I remember that you exist, but I don’t remember anything about you or what you’re like.”

[Emily]
Yeah, yeah.

[Shep]
Yeah. So, six years is enough time for it to be a big time for a kid, and not that much time when you’re an adult.

[Emily]
Yeah.

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Shep]
“I just saw you.”

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Emily]
But also going from six to twelve is a big transition to see.

[Shep]
Yes. Yep.

[Thomas]
For sure.

[Shep]
And twelve is old enough to express yourself and have, like, different interests than your parents. And so, the son that stayed had hoped that his son would be interested in cars and stuff, but no, he wants to stay in his room and be on his computer just like his uncle.

[Emily]
But he’s okay with it.

[Shep]
Yeah, he’s okay with it.

[Emily]
Because he knows the kid’s gonna have a good life, just like his uncle.

[Shep]
Is the uncle having a good life or is the uncle miserable because his father neglected him?

[Emily]
I wouldn’t say he’s miserable.

[Thomas]
I don’t think he’s miserable day to day. He’s kind of gone off and done his own thing, and he doesn’t really think much about his family.

[Emily]
Yeah.

[Shep]
Yeah, he doesn’t think about his family. He intentionally doesn’t think about his family. He moved away from his family.

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Shep]
He’s putting it all behind him.

[Emily]
But he’s successful. He has a wife. They feel secure.

[Shep]
He’s successful because he has a wife?

[Emily]
He’s successful and he has a wife who he loves.

[Thomas]
Yeah, she completes him.

[Shep]
She completes him.

[Emily]
Yes. She completes him. What are- You two are just so, like, what? Like, you- I feel like-

[Shep]
What? What?

[Emily]
I feel like-

[Shep]
What are we? What are we?

[Emily]
I feel like you don’t like the idea of, like, these relationships where people love and support each other and it’s not-

[Thomas]
I was agreeing with you.

[Shep]
Yeah, she can’t see that, Thomas. She judges us-

[Emily]
As one.

[Shep]
Based on our gender.

[Thomas]
All right. What else for this story? So, we’ve talked about how our main character has always felt distant from the dad. And I think we sort of hinted at, or not maybe not even hinted, we sort of explicitly said, he wanted a closer relationship, right? He felt like that loss in his life of, “I had this attention, my younger brother came along…” Does he resent the younger brother at all for that?

[Shep]
Yes!

[Emily]
Obviously.

[Thomas]
That’s why he keeps that wall up.

[Emily]
Mm hmm.

[Shep]
Yeah. And the younger brothers, like, “It wasn’t my fault.”

[Thomas]
Right.

[Shep]
Like, “I didn’t, I didn’t do that.”

[Emily]
Yeah, that’s what that whole confrontation is about, is that he’s like, “You were dad’s favorite. You came along. You took everything from me.” Just normal, typical older sibling bullshit anyway. Like, I know not everyone has that relationship, but I, I’ve seen a few older siblings that, like, literally resent their siblings for existing.

[Shep]
Yep. So, good. Common, you know-

[Emily]
Yeah.

[Shep]
Common feeling.

[Thomas]
Yeah. So, does our character-

[Shep]
What’s our character’s name?

[Thomas]
We never named him.

[Shep]
Robert.

[Thomas]
Okay.

[Shep]
The dad’s name is Steve, obviously.

[Emily]
Obviously.

[Thomas]
Obviously. Does Robert feel bad or sad or like he missed out because the dad died when he wasn’t around? Like he didn’t get to resolve anything? Not that he was making an attempt to.

[Emily]
He doesn’t, but he feels bad about that.

[Thomas]
Oh, he feels bad that he doesn’t feel bad.

[Emily]
Yeah.

[Thomas]
Ah. And we said before that the brother, the younger brother, is a wreck.

[Emily]
Yeah.

[Shep]
What’s the younger brother’s name? Steve jr.

[Thomas]
Ohohoho-

[Emily]
Jacob. Little Stevie.

[Thomas]
Jake, is that what you said?

[Emily]
Yeah, Jake.

[Thomas]
That works.

[Emily]
So, yeah, Jake is a mess because he was so close with his father. They did have good times together. And he was there while his father, I don’t know, what, did his father suddenly pass? No, he knew he was sick.

[Shep]
Yep.

[Emily]
And so, he was there throughout the whole illness. And like-

[Shep]
Yes. And had to keep it a secret-

[Emily]
Yeah.

[Shep]
Because the dad didn’t want people to know.

[Thomas]
Hmm.

[Emily]
Yeah.

[Shep]
So, he had to live with it and couldn’t talk to anyone about it. And Robert, like, is resentful that he didn’t tell anyone. And Jake is resentful that he didn’t get to tell anyone.

[Emily]
Right.

[Thomas]
And maybe Jake is even like, “We have to at least tell Robert.” And the dad’s like, “No, we don’t need to bother him.”

[Shep]
Right. Because he’s gone and he’s having his own life. Like, the dad recognizes that he doesn’t have that relationship.

[Emily]
Yeah, and the dad kind of, I think, instead of playing it off that the dad’s just a straight-up asshole, he’s just like, “Your brother’s fine. He’s taking care of himself. He doesn’t need anything from us, from me.”

[Shep]
Oh, the dad has recorded a message for his eldest son. So, you can play that whenever you really want to wring some tears out.

[Emily]
Is it a heartfelt message or is it a…

[Thomas]
“You abandoned your mother.”

[Emily]
Yeah, yeah. Is it like “You abandoned your family and I don’t know why you couldn’t ever be like me and Jake?”

[Thomas]
Or is it him apologizing? Like, “I realize, I know. It’s not that I was ignoring you and didn’t even realize what I was doing. Like, I’ve come to this realization that, like-“

[Emily]
No, no, no, Shep said he was a bad father and we’re leaving it at he was a bad father.

[Thomas]
That could still be a bad father to say, like, “I knew it was a problem and did nothing about it.”

[Shep]
He was a bad father. He just didn’t know what to do. It didn’t come- communicating with Robert didn’t come naturally to him. It just wasn’t, you know, wasn’t like it was with Jake.

[Emily]
See, but me, I- okay. I guess if the way you are phrasing it, Thomas, is that he acknowledges that he didn’t know until now.

[Thomas]
Yeah, it came later in life, the realization, yeah.

[Emily]
Yeah.

[Thomas]
We could maybe also have some sort of… I don’t know if we see it or we hear about it somehow, but Jake, at one point, after the dad became sick, maybe the dad was sick for several years, he reaches out to Robert and like kind of discreetly is like, “Hey, you should really think about coming for Thanksgiving this year (or Christmas or whatever).” You know, “We’d all love to see you.” And, you know, so, he can’t explicitly, he’s, in order to honor his dad, he can’t explicitly say, “Dad is sick, you need to come home and see him. He’s dying.” But, he is trying to talk Robert into coming back. And in that way, he’s like trying to be the, I don’t know, like broker peace or whatever. We talked about how Robert and Cassie are coming back to this town where they used to live. Is there some sort of a B-plot going on where there’s another person that they haven’t seen in a while?

[Emily]
Nah, B-plots are overrated in this kind of story.

[Shep]
How much of a B-plot do you want? I mean, there’s so many things you could do with a returning-to-town story.

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Shep]
You have another salesperson that works at Bechdel and Sons car dealership.

[Thomas]
I love that it’s Bechdel and Son. Like, that-

[Shep]
Bechdel and Son. And it’s the handsome guy from high school that everyone had a crush on. And so, they come back and they see him and he’s still handsome.

[Emily]
Of course.

[Shep]
And he’s also very witty and charming, like Steve and Jake. And so, Jake is out, because he’s a mess right now because his dad died. And so, the handsome guy is kind of running the dealership. If they’re at the dealership for any reason, if you have a scene there, you can have him there. And then also he comes to the funeral-

[Thomas]
Of course, yeah.

[Shep]
And the wives can see him. Like, “Oh, gosh, he’s still-“

[Thomas]
Robert’s like, “That’s not how it’s supposed to be. The popular guy’s supposed to be fat and bald when you come back. This is bullshit.”

[Shep]
Yeah, “He’s handsomer than ever. Did he get even taller? How is that possible?”

[Thomas]
Jake’s like, “Oh my god, tell me about it.”

[Shep]
So, there’s your unimportant B-plot.

[Thomas]
Okay.

[Shep]
It’s unrelated to the, doesn’t have anything to do with Ties, doesn’t have anything to do with anything else. He’s just a guy in town that everybody knows.

[Thomas]
Is there maybe some sort of, you know, “Oh, Carvana opened in the next town over (or in the big city), and that’s cutting into our ability to run the business?” Is there any kind of that worry there?

[Emily]
I feel like that’s an overrated trope. Overused, excuse me.

[Thomas]
I think it’s very real, though. I think that’s why it gets used a bunch.

[Emily]
I know, but do we really want to bring reality into this?

[Shep]
So, it’s a thing that Jake can be talking about because he’s trying to make conversation. He’s like, “You know, the business is struggling. Fewer people are buying cars right now. The population in town is getting smaller because people are moving away.” And it’s not intentionally a dig at Robert, but Robert did move away.

[Thomas]
Hmm.

[Shep]
And so, he could like jump on that and take it as a personal attack when it wasn’t intended that way at all.

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Shep]
But it’s Robert carrying this baggage that he’s pinning on Jake when it’s not Jake’s fault.

[Thomas]
Oh, sure. That could, I could see a dinner scene-

[Shep]
Yes.

[Thomas]
Where they’ve all come back into town and the whole at the dinner table and-

[Shep]
Right.

[Thomas]
It’s kind of awkward. And so, yeah, Jake’s trying to break the ice and make conversation. And Robert’s like, “Oh, so what does that mean? What are you saying?” And he’s like-

[Shep]
Oh.

[Thomas]
“No, I’m not saying that.”

[Shep]
Oh. Robert asked him, “How’s business?”

[Emily]
Yeah.

[Thomas]
Oh, yeah.

[Shep]
It’s Robert’s fault that it came up. And Robert is still butthurt that it’s Bechdel and Son and he’s not the son.

[Thomas]
He’s not the son, yeah.

[Emily]
And Jake shouldn’t be, it’s not gonna be like, all “Argh, they’re coming after our small-town business.” It’s more like, “Well, we’re getting by, but you know, with people moving out-“

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Emily]
“And Carvana becoming a thing, it’s not as successful as it was when dad- with dad.”

[Thomas]
Right, he’s just having a matter-of-fact conversation. This is just what he’s been thinking about.

[Emily]
Yeah, just, “But we’re, we’re getting through it. We’re fine.”

[Thomas]
Yeah, yeah.

[Shep]
He might even be phrasing it that way to, like, put Robert’s mind at ease. Like, hey, you’re not, you didn’t miss out on anything.

[Thomas]
Hmm.

[Shep]
Like, you, left, you got out of town, and that’s probably for the best because actually the business is struggling, and here’s why.

[Emily]
Mm.

[Shep]
And it’s not intentionally, it’s the opposite of what Jake intended. He intended it to comfort Robert, and Robert saw it as an attack.

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Shep]
Yeah, that’s a great early movie dinner scene. Sets the tone, sets the attitudes of the characters.

[Thomas]
Did we ever nail down why Robert is the one to pick the tie? That Jake gives it to him because he’s overwhelmed, or the mom suggests, or-

[Shep]
No, Jake gives it to Robert to do because Robert felt disconnected from their dad. And Jake is trying to get him connected, try to mend that relationship after the fact. And maybe if he takes part in the memorial and picks out the tie, like it’s an important thing.

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Shep]
It’s an important detail.

[Emily]
I also think he is emotionally overwhelmed too. And then he’s like, “Two birds, one stone.”

[Shep]
Yeah.

[Emily]
“I don’t have to deal with it. He can feel more connected to dad.”

[Shep]
Yep.

[Thomas]
Right. Because he’s got not just the funeral to deal with, but also “How do I take over this business?”

[Emily]
Right.

[Shep]
Well, the dad knew he was sick, and so he’s-

[Thomas]
Oh, that’s true.

[Shep]
He could have started that transition early.

[Thomas]
Sure. But he still has to finish that now.

[Shep]
Right.

[Thomas]
He’s got steps he has to take, and-

[Emily]
Yeah, there’s still a lot of paperwork to file.

[Thomas]
Exactly, yeah.

[Emily]
Like, a lot of paperwork to file.

[Shep]
Right. They had a bunch of stuff that they had planned to do for the transition because they thought they had more time-

[Thomas]
Right.

[Shep]
And then they didn’t. And that’s how it is sometimes.

[Emily]
Yeah.

[Shep]
You always think there’s more time.

[Emily]
Yeah, and you can be prepared as you, as possible and still like… “Oh, now I have to do this.”

[Shep]
Yeah.

[Emily]
“I need how many copies of the death certificate now?”

[Shep]
Yeah.

[Thomas]
“What the hell was dad’s password?”

[Emily]
Mm hmm.

[Thomas]
So, when Jake gives Robert the job of picking the tie, is that the product of an argument or a conversation about their dad or something along those lines? Because I feel right now it kind of, we don’t have like an impetus for that. It just sort of comes out of nowhere.

[Emily]
In my brain, I’m seeing them in the room together.

[Thomas]
In the closet.

[Emily]
Yeah.

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Shep]
Practicing kissing.

[Emily]
Yeah, exactly. And they’re kind of, like, just, like, Jake’s in there with a purpose. He’s looking for some paperwork stuff and some other things. And Robert, you know, what’s he got to do? Kind of just following his brother around. Because sometimes you do that-

[Thomas]
Sure.

[Emily]
Even if you don’t want to talk to people, you’re just like, “You’re in this room. Nobody else is anywhere else. I’ll just-“

[Thomas]
Well, maybe he even has like a little bit of that, like, “I don’t feel like I’m doing anything. I feel like I’m in the way.” Like-

[Emily]
Yeah, yeah. Or maybe he’s like, “Do you need any help?”

[Thomas]
Right.

[Emily]
And then he nonchalantly opens the closet door and is like, “Oh my god, these are all of dad’s ties.” And Jake kind of looks at it and cringes and goes, “Yeah, we need to pick one for him.”

[Thomas]
Maybe Jake is even enumerating the things he needs to do.

[Emily]
Yeah, yeah.

[Thomas]
He’s like, “I’m trying to find this paperwork to do this and that and that.” And then he opens the closet, Robert opens the closet.

[Emily]
Yeah.

[Thomas]
He’s like, “Oh my god, all the ties.” He’s like, “Yeah, and that’s another thing. We got to pick the tie for his-“

[Emily]
“We’ve got to pick the tie,” but I want him, there, to be more, like, hesitation in that because then it’s like him thinking about, “I can’t do that.” You know, “Dad was my best friend,” whatever.

[Thomas]
Right.

[Emily]
And then looks at Robert and is like, “You do it.”

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Emily]
You know.

[Shep]
So, earlier we talked about how Jake is, has high emotional intelligence. So, I don’t want it to be like a spur of the moment or-

[Emily]
Oh.

[Shep]
It’s not an accident.

[Thomas]
So, this is maybe an initial scene that we were just discussing, and then later he gives him the task? Like, we establish, “Oh, there’s this job of having to pick dad’s funeral tie,” or his burial tie. That gets established a little early. And then later, because Jake sees that need in Robert.

[Shep]
Oh, maybe this is after the dinner fight.

[Emily]
Yeah.

[Shep]
And Jake brings up, “I want you to pick out the tie-“

[Thomas]
Hmm.

[Shep]
“That he’ll wear,” which to him is like a quick thing. He could have just done it immediately.

[Emily]
Right.

[Shep]
And Robert’s going to turn it into a big thing.

[Thomas]
“I’ve got one job at this funeral.”

[Shep]
Yeah.

[Emily]
Oh, yeah, because he starts overthinking it.

[Thomas]
Right, of course. It’s Robert.

[Shep]
Yes.

[Emily]
“I’m gonna do this. I’m gonna fuck this up too, like everything else I did.”

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Shep]
Yep.

[Thomas]
And this is the forever tie. This is what, the last tie people will see him wearing.

[Shep]
Yeah, that’s definitely the type of overthinking-

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Shep]
That Robert’s going to do.

[Thomas]
He’s going to be buried in it forever.

[Shep]
Yep.

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Shep]
Oh, and then he goes through and he finds the unopened tie that he had given him. He’s like, “This one,” because it’s, like, the last burn on his dad. And then the rest of the movie happens. And at the end, he changes it to the tie that his brother gave him that he wore multiple times.

[Thomas]
I think it’s a good idea that he, like we said, he chooses the tie sort of spitefully at first, the one that he gave him. And then later, maybe throughout the movie, they’re like packing ties into boxes or something, because we’ve talked about they’ve got to try to figure out how to get rid of them.

[Emily]
Right, what are they gonna do with all these ties?

[Thomas]
And so, when Robert changes his mind, he goes, “Hang on.” And he’s, like, digging through a box because he knows he saw it before. And he goes, “No, this one.” And then, oh, since we have that scene early with the closet full of ties, then we need to have a scene at the end of the film where the closet is empty.

[Shep]
Yes!

[Emily]
Yeah, of course.

[Shep]
Yep. Good. I like the contrast.

[Thomas]
Well, we’d love to hear your thoughts on today’s episode about a Necktie. Did we tie it up tight? Or are you fit to be tied? Let us know by leaving a comment on our website, reaching out on social media, or sending us an email. There are links to all of those at AlmostPlausible.com, where you can browse our catalog of previous episodes. Did you know that we publish full transcripts as well as provide links to the many references we make? It’s all there, plus additional information about the three of us and ways you can support the show. Of course, the best way to support Emily, Shep, and I is to join us for the next episode of Almost Plausible.

[Outro music]

[Shep]
Did you…? I thought you had three pitches.

[Emily]
No, that one died.

[Shep]
Oh, okay.

[Emily]
The serial killer from the first one (slicing sound) nixed it.

[Shep]
Killed him.

[Emily]
Yeah.

[Shep]
All right. You could just say that it was my imagination.

[Emily]
It was your imagin- No, that was totally in your head, Shep.

[Shep]
Ah.

[Emily]
I never had a third pitch.

[Shep]
Oh, gosh. My eyes.

[Emily]
You should get that checked out. I mean, I know you’ve been having memory problems with your old age.

[Shep]
Have I? I don’t remember that.

[Thomas]
I really don’t know what else to do for this episode.

[Emily]
So, does-

[Shep]
I mean, there’s-

[Emily]
Do we see-

[Shep]
You could have-

[Emily]
Go, go, you go first. After you.

[Shep]
I will probably remember, so go ahead.

[Emily]
Are you sure? Are you sure about that? Because I will, I will remember mine.

[Shep]
It’s fine. Go ahead.

[Emily]
Okay.