Wind Chimes

References

• Ying xiong
• Bottle Trees: A Beautiful Tradition With a Spiritual Past
• High Fidelity
• What Dreams May Come
• Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind
• Hengduan Mountains
• Highlander
• Almost Plausible: Bread Maker
• Almost Plausible: Cranberry Sauce
• Triple Goddess (Neopaganism)
• Magrat Garlick
• Practical Magic
• Almost Plausible: $100 Bill
• Final Destination
• Almost Plausible: Chicken Noodle Soup
• Non-Player Character
• It
• Romeo and Juliet

Transcript

[Intro music begins]

[Shep]
It’s much more severe than she thought.

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Shep]
She thinks it’s some mischievous imp that latches onto kids, which is, like, her explanation of why kids are rebellious because they’re vulnerable during this period in their time in their lives.

[Thomas]
Right. She thinks it’s chickenpox, but actually it’s measles.

[Emily]
Yeah.

[Thomas]
We. Yeah, it works with the allegory.

[Shep]
Yes. Yes. Oh, no. It works a little too well.

[Intro music]

[Thomas]
Hey there, story fans. Welcome to Almost Plausible, the podcast where we take ordinary objects and turn them into movies. I’m Thomas J. Brown, and I am joined by Emily-

[Emily]
Hey, guys.

[Thomas]
And F. Paul Shepard.

[Shep]
Happy to be here.

[Thomas]
Some people love them, some people hate them, and I’m sure some people are ambivalent about them? Wind Chimes are the ordinary object for this episode. So, Emily, Shep, how do you two feel about wind chimes?

[Shep]
Sometimes I hate them. Sometimes I’m ambivalent about them. Sometimes I love them. Now… Well, I used to be a teacher and I did a visit to like an elementary school once and the kids, like first graders, had made a wind chime and presented it to me. Now, it didn’t really wind chime. It was a bird and it had one string coming out the bottom with a flapper to catch the wind.

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Shep]
But on the string was a bell and so the bell would ring.

[Thomas]
I see.

[Shep]
The bird was paper mache that they had made. The “bird” should be in quotation marks.

[Thomas]
The blob.

[Shep]
The blob, the rough, the vaguely bird-shaped blue blob. I thought it was sweet and I still have it.

[Thomas]
Aw.

[Shep]
God, that was 20 years ago. Holy crap. Sorry. Please continue.

[Thomas]
Yeah, we’re old.

[Emily]
Yeah, we’re very old. I, you’ve no… I realized how old I was the other day.

[Shep]
Oh, no.

[Emily]
It was sad.

[Shep]
Nobody should realize that.

[Emily]
No, no, they shouldn’t.

[Thomas]
I realized next year I’ll have been building websites for 30 years.

[Shep]
They had the Internet 30 years ago?

[Emily]
Oh.

[Thomas]
Like, pretty much when people started building websites is when I started building websites, so-

[Emily]
Yeah.

[Thomas]
Sorry, Emily, you were gonna say about wind chimes?

[Emily]
I like wind chimes. That’s all I was gonna say. They’re pretty.

[Shep]
Well, there’s different kinds of wind chimes. There’s the metal ones, there’s the glass ones, there’s the wood ones that just, you know, they-

[Thomas]
Mm. Thunk. They don’t chime.

[Shep]
Thunk.

[Thomas]
They thunk. Wind thunks.

[Shep]
Wind thunks.

[Emily]
But if, if they’re hollowed out correctly, they make pretty little thunk sounds.

[Thomas]
That’s true. They sometimes can make a nice little.

[Shep]
I really like the wood, the wind thunks of the wind chimes because I like the sound.

[Emily]
Yep.

[Shep]
I like there being a sound. But I don’t want an overpowering sound.

[Emily]
Right.

[Shep]
And a chime can be overpowering, but a thunk?

[Emily]
I will say the ones with a million tines or whatever you want to call them, coming down with the high high-pitched.

[Thomas]
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

[Emily]
And I don’t. I can’t do those. Just like five. Do five things.

[Shep]
Yeah, five.

[Emily]
A little wooden (wooden chimes sound) is nice.

[Shep]
Yep, five ones, if they’re notes. If it’s a properly tuned wind chime.

[Thomas]
Yeah, yeah.

[Shep]
I hate an out-of-tune wind chime.

[Thomas]
Yeah. All right, Emily, well, we are ready for you to blow us away with your pitches.

[Emily]
Oh.

[Shep]
Ha. Set the high bar.

[Emily]
You are gonna be very disappointed.

[Shep]
You always say that and we never are.

[Thomas]
Right.

[Shep]
So-

[Thomas]
Then we, like, pick yours.

[Shep]
Nice try.

[Thomas]
So-

[Emily]
All right, so I got two pitches for us today. All right, first, we’ve got a witchy grandmother hangs wind chimes throughout her property to protect her family from some inherited curse. One summer, her granddaughter visits and the wind chimes go crazy, and their family is now in imminent danger.

[Thomas]
It’s an interesting idea. I like that one.

[Shep]
Did you ever see, uh, Hero (Ying xiong)?

[Emily]
No, I have not.

[Shep]
The guy is meeting with the emperor and there are candles around and they’re like blowing in the wind as they’re talking. And it turns out the candles sense killing intent.

[Emily]
Oh.

[Shep]
And so the emperor knows that this guy is here to kill him because the candles are blowing.

[Emily]
Yeah.

[Shep]
So that in my mind is what I’m picturing when she shows up. And like all the wind chimes directly around where she’s walking are going crazy.

[Emily]
Well, I kind of got the idea from, in the south, that African American communities have glass bottles that they hang around their house to help keep the spirits out. But it’s really cool, like, the idea of it. And they’ll hang, like, kind of wind-chimey glass bottles from the trees, and they put blue bottles and stuff. It’s a neat idea. So I was kind of maybe stealing from that.

[Thomas]
Borrowing. Inspired by.

[Emily]
Borrowing. Yeah, it was inspiring. And I mean, they’re not the only ones, but they’re the most prevalent in the United States that do that still.

[Thomas]
Sure.

[Emily]
All right, my second one is: a young poet communes with his muse through a wind chime. He speaks to her as if she were his soulmate. One day, the chimes fall silent, and he dives into a deep depression. Lost, he wanders the countryside trying to find a new source of inspiration. He hears the sound of the chimes one day and meets a young woman. And the creative sparks fly once again.

[Shep]
So he didn’t fall into a deep depression, he dove into it.

[Emily]
Yep, just dove right on in. All right, that’s what I’ve got. How about Thomas, what are you, what are you throwing at us?

[Thomas]
Well, I have a couple. My first one is actually quite similar to the one that you just said. A wind chime that only rings when the wind blows.

[Shep]
Okay, pause. That’s when wind chimes chime.

[Thomas]
No, no, no, no. You can manually, like, manipulate the string.

[Emily]
Oh, okay.

[Shep]
Okay.

[Thomas]
So doing that… I realize now that I’ve said it out loud, the sentence doesn’t convey what was in my brain. You’re right to call me out on it.

[Shep]
I was just so confused. All right.

[Thomas]
But no, if you, if you try to manually do it, nothing happens. It doesn’t sound.

[Shep]
Gotta be natural.

[Thomas]
But if the wind blows and manipulates the ringer thing, then it will sound.

[Shep]
Now if you blow on it, does it chime or is that okay?

[Thomas]
No, because that’s not the wind, that’s-

[Emily]
It’s gotta be the wind, specifically.

[Thomas]
Yeah. Yes. Yes.

[Shep]
It’s got to be a specific type of natural wind.

[Thomas]
Yes, yes.

[Emily]
It’s going to be from the southeast.

[Shep]
A bellows out there…

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Emily]
Slight swirl, low pressure.

[Thomas]
So when the wind chime sounds, it pulls a heartbroken artist through shifting realities where familiar memories distort and fracture, forcing him to reckon with a past love and accept that he may never know the truth about why their relationship ended.

[Emily]
That sounds like a postmodernist wet dream. And I am here for it.

[Shep]
It reminds me of-

[Emily]
High Fidelity?

[Shep]
The. No, no, no.

[Thomas]
What Dreams May Come?

[Shep]
No, no, no.

[Thomas]
Eternal Sunshine in the Spotless Mind?

[Shep]
Yes, that is what I was thinking of.

[Thomas]
Yeah, I can see that. My other pitch is: a man dies, but his spirit can’t or maybe won’t cross over to the other side. He communicates to his wife through her favorite set of wind chimes, a gift that he had bought for her.

[Shep]
That’s What Dreams May Come.

[Thomas]
I got them both.

[Emily]
Yeah.

[Thomas]
Good. Phew.

[Shep]
You got them both.

[Thomas]
Those are my pitches. Shep, what do you have for us?

[Shep]
Well, I have a similar one, sort of. Well, let me, let me read out the pitch.

[Thomas]
Okay.

[Shep]
Deep in the windy Héngduàn mountain range, which is a real mountain range, at the top of Mount Fēngmíng, which is a fake mountain range, but it means the cry of the wind.

[Thomas]
Hmm.

[Emily]
Nice.

[Shep]
Fēng means wind and míng means cry. There is a small temple at the top of a mountain, which has become a tourist attraction. One of the highlights of the temple is a set of wind chimes said to have been chiming nonstop for as long as anyone can remember. Certainly, it’s been there for centuries, which is as far back as records go. The legends say its soothing chimes keep the mountain’s spirit peacefully slumbering. Well, a collector wants it and has tasked a thief to acquire it for them. The thief manages to steal the wind chime itself, but it turns out it really doesn’t stop chiming. Even in their suitcase, it can be heard. The thief ends up wrapping the wind chimes tightly in an old yoga mat, which finally stills it. However, the wind chimes turn out to be a mystical artifact. And their nonstop chiming have been keeping the spirit of an ancient cultivator trapped in slumber for 10,000 years. The cultivator is now awake and filled with righteous fury. But the power-hungry rivals that trap them are long gone, and there is nowhere to direct their anger. And now they’re trapped in this modern world and have to adapt.

[Emily]
So this ancient cultivator, is it like a person-sized thing or-?

[Shep]
It’s a person.

[Emily]
Okay.

[Shep]
It’s a person who is cultivating their spirituality.

[Emily]
Okay.

[Shep]
Like an immortal.

[Emily]
Yeah, Yeah.

[Thomas]
And they’re from a mountain. Are they a Highlander?

[Shep]
They could be a Highlander. I mean, they’re the last Highlander, then. There’s only one, which is the rule.

[Thomas]
Right. Which of these stories is the one that we want to go with?

[Emily]
I actually like almost all of them.

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Emily]
So-

[Shep]
So when you say the young poet communes with his muse through a wind chime.

[Emily]
Yes.

[Shep]
What does that mean? What is he commu-? Is he communicating with the, with the spirit or the wind chime? Is he trying to talk to, is he holding the wind chime up to his ear? “Can you hear me now? Can you hear me now?”

[Emily]
No, no. It’s like-

[Shep]
And he’s trying to find a windy spot.

[Thomas]
Hahaha.

[Emily]
No. Like he’s sitting under a tree on a porch or something-

[Shep]
Ah. Okay.

[Emily]
And the wind chime blows as he’s writing. Yeah, it was just kind of like wherever his home or writing lodge or whatever, there’s a wind chime. And whenever he goes to write, it blows. And that gives him his inspiration. So he talks back to it.

[Shep]
I see. Thomas, which one are you looking at?

[Thomas]
Um. Gah, yeah. I don’t know. I liked Emily’s first one. I think that’s kind of a cool, creepy mystery. I like yours, Shep. That’s a really interesting setup. I like my one about the heartbroken artist, but I feel like that’s too visual for our podcast.

[Emily]
Yeah. That’s got a lot of camera tricks and-

[Thomas]
Right.

[Emily]
Special effects.

[Thomas]
We’d be describing, like, weird effects that are happening. Weird visual effects that are happening, so-

[Shep]
“And then it’s like, whoo. And then it goes, whoa.”

[Emily]
“And it kind of goes wibbly wobbly.”

[Shep]
Yeah. All right, so let’s do Emily’s first one, because it’s got witches, and we have a series of witches. And this could just-

[Thomas]
Oh, yeah.

[Shep]
Slot right in there.

[Emily]
Are we doing a third?

[Shep]
It could be a prequel.

[Thomas]
Oh, yeah.

[Emily]
Oh, okay.

[Shep]
Look at you.

[Thomas]
Let’s. Let’s-

[Shep]
Both of you lit up, thinking of just the possibilities.

[Thomas]
Is this gonna be, like, the main witch? Is this, like, her backstory?

[Emily]
Yeah.

[Shep]
I figured that she is the young girl.

[Thomas]
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Emily]
She’s the granddaughter.

[Thomas]
She’s probably-

[Emily]
Yeah.

[Thomas]
Oh, no, wait. Oh, this is so good. Oh, my god. Okay.

[Shep]
See? See how it just flows?

[Thomas]
Yeah, yeah.

[Shep]
Because you have all this context to build on.

[Thomas]
I like the idea of it being a prequel, so I think, obviously, the young girl is going to be our main witch character. Do you guys agree? That is probably who we want.

[Shep]
Yes.

[Emily]
Oh, yeah. She’s the granddaughter for sure.

[Shep]
Because… So the chimes go off to indicate danger, and they’re going off around the main witch, which is Poppy.

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Shep]
So you think, “Oh, Poppy is the danger,” but if you know the series, you know that she’s a good witch, so she is not the danger.

[Thomas]
Right.

[Shep]
But whatever the danger is, it’s with her.

[Thomas]
Yeah, yeah.

[Shep]
But it’s misleading, and I like misleading the audience.

[Emily]
Yeah. I like that.

[Shep]
It’s misleading, but it’s not. If you pay attention, all the clues are there.

[Thomas]
So this is when Poppy visits her grandmother’s place.

[Shep]
Yes.

[Thomas]
So who do- What do we like for a name for the grandmother? Let’s name these characters early.

[Emily]
Gotta be another flower.

[Shep]
It’s got to be another flower.

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Shep]
Because that’s what we’re doing with the witches. Because the, the runaway is named Iris.

[Thomas]
Yep.

[Emily]
And the Christian mom’s daughter is Violet.

[Shep]
Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Thomas]
So we had the flower name. So Rose, is that a good name for- It’s kind of an older woman’s name, right?

[Shep]
Yes. Yeah.

[Emily]
Yep.

[Shep]
It’s a golden girl’s name.

[Thomas]
Yeah, yeah.

[Shep]
So yes, perfect.

[Emily]
Perfect.

[Thomas]
And then is the, the mom. The middle child.

[Shep]
The middle child? The middle witch.

[Thomas]
Middle witch? Yeah. Is she-

[Shep]
She’s not a middle child.

[Thomas]
Well, that’s true.

[Shep]
She’s-

[Thomas]
That’s true. The middle witch.

[Shep]
She’s the mother. It’s the crone, the mother and the maiden. Like, you have your witch-

[Thomas]
There you go.

[Emily]
Oh, yeah.

[Shep]
Trio.

[Thomas]
Perfect. So what’s her name?

[Shep]
It’s got to be another flower.

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Thomas]
Magnolia?

[Shep]
Chrysanthemum.

[Thomas]
Chrysanthemum.

[Shep]
Oh, Magnolia. I was thinking chrysanthemum because, like, Chrissy, but Magnolia, because you could do Maggie.

[Emily]
Maggie.

[Thomas]
Yeah, yeah.

[Shep]
And Maggie or Magrat was the name of one of the witches in the Discworld books.

[Thomas]
Perfect.

[Shep]
So, like, I love it.

[Thomas]
Love it.

[Shep]
Because even if you don’t say that her name is short for Magnolia-

[Thomas]
Right. Which, she was only ever referred to as Maggie. Yeah.

[Shep]
You only ever refer to as Maggie. It’s. It’s just part of the hidden lore.

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Shep]
If you’re paying attention, you can extrapolate out. “Oh, I bet it’s short for Magnolia.”

[Thomas]
Yep.

[Shep]
I like putting little hidden Easter eggs and treasure.

[Thomas]
Yes, yes. And not explaining it to the audience, because that’s not a thing every movie has to do.

[Emily]
No.

[Shep]
No, people are smart. I hope.

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Emily]
And it makes it more enjoyable when you’re like, “I know this and no one else does.”

[Thomas]
Yeah. Not everyone needs to get every joke.

[Emily]
Oh. I do think, also, is a good time to set up the relationship between Gary and Poppy in this story.

[Thomas]
I was thinking that as well, because Gary is the old sheriff, and so, of course, he’ll have been around since this story. He’s been living in this town forever, so, yeah, he definitely needs to make an appearance as young sheriff.

[Emily]
Yeah. Is he the younger sheriff? Is he hitting on mom or is… Yeah. I guess he can’t be old and with Grandma.

[Thomas]
He’s not that old.

[Thomas]
I think he’s Maggie’s age. He’s roughly that age. Yeah. But the impression I get is that where this story takes place, Maggie and Poppy do not live in this town.

[Emily]
Right.

[Thomas]
But Rose and Gary do, and this is where… This is the town that the other stories eventually take place in.

[Shep]
Oh, I know what happens at the end.

[Thomas]
Oh, great. That’ll give us a direction to go.

[Shep]
Because Rose dies.

[Emily]
Well, yeah. Rose dies at the end.

[Shep]
Rose dies at the end. And the city, the town, needs a witch.

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Shep]
And Gary knows this. And Poppy takes Rose’s place.

[Thomas]
Poppy or Maggie.

[Emily]
Poppy. Because Maggie’s kind of… She goes by Maggie. She doesn’t go by the, the flower version of her name.

[Thomas]
Oh, is she a bit rebellious?

[Emily]
She’s a bit rebellious. She’s not anti-magic. She’s totally fine with her daughter exploring the gift, but she’s not in it.

[Thomas]
Is she? Because that could create extra tension if she’s, like, trying to be away from it, trying to not be a part of it.

[Shep]
Oh.

[Emily]
Yeah.

[Shep]
Yes.

[Thomas]
She sort of fits the role of the Christian mom in our other stories.

[Shep]
That’s why when she introduces herself, she introduces herself as Maggie.

[Emily]
Maggie. Yeah.

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Emily]
I want her to have. Yeah. Be separate from it.

[Shep]
So have Rose in the background while she’s doing that.

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Shep]
Make a face like “You’re hiding your identity.”

[Thomas]
She sort of (tsk tsk sounds) shakes her head, like-

[Shep]
Right. And the audience is like, “I don’t know, what…”

[Thomas]
Right.

[Shep]
“What is she disapproving of?”

[Emily]
Does Rose run the bakery? Is it a thing that she inherits?

[Thomas]
Sure. Yeah.

[Shep]
Family business.

[Emily]
Yeah.

[Thomas]
Okay. So what is Rose’s cooking vessel? She’s an older woman.

[Shep]
Right. It’ll be like an earthenware pot or, you know, what is it?

[Thomas]
Right.

[Shep]
A Dutch oven.

[Thomas]
Yeah. That one of those Dutch oven or cast iron baking things, you know?

[Shep]
Ooh, cast iron.

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Emily]
Do you want frying pan or like Dutch oven?

[Thomas]
Well, they have ones that are… maybe that’s a more modern invention. I don’t know. But they have ones that are specifically designed for baking bread.

[Emily]
Oh, that’s right.

[Thomas]
So it’s sort of like a shallow dish with like a big bulbous lid.

[Shep]
That is exactly what I was picturing.

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Emily]
Okay.

[Thomas]
Oh, yeah.

[Shep]
Because then you could capture something in it, like a Fae, because it’s iron.

[Thomas]
Right.

[Shep]
But it’s something that could be destroyed during the ep… the episode? The movie! This is the problem with doing several of these in a row. I start thinking it’s a TV show. Something that could be destroyed in the movie.

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Shep]
And this is why Rose dies. This is why you don’t see any of this stuff later on, because it’s all gone.

[Thomas]
Hmm. Right. The benefit, though, of writing the prequel or at least coming up with the idea of the prequel before the actual other movies are written, is that if you wanted to include little nudges.

[Emily]
We could. It’s so much easier to tie it all together.

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Shep]
So the Dutch oven, the shallow dish with the thing, that is a bread maker.

[Thomas]
That’s true. Yeah.

[Shep]
And so what Poppy has later is a bread maker.

[Thomas]
Yeah, yeah.

[Shep]
Like, she is keeping the tradition of her family and modernizing it.

[Thomas]
Yeah. Perfect. It’s almost like we planned it. So you mentioned a Fae. Is that what we want? There’s a sort of evil presence, we’ve decided.

[Emily]
Right.

[Thomas]
Is that the evil presence that we have in this film?

[Emily]
Yeah. That’s kind of following the granddaughter, attracted to Poppy.

[Shep]
I would say that it’s already in her shadow.

[Emily]
Okay. So it attached to her at some point.

[Shep]
She is young, and maybe she doesn’t even believe in magic yet because her mom never taught her. Because her mom is rebelling.

[Thomas]
Oh. But she has the-

[Shep]
But she has the gift.

[Thomas]
Whatever the intrinsic gift.

[Shep]
Yes.

[Thomas]
And so that has… Because she hasn’t known how to attune it properly, that has allowed, has created an opening for this Fae to enter into her life.

[Shep]
Right. Her mom, in a way, didn’t vaccinate her daughter against the Fae because she didn’t believe in it.

[Emily]
Right.

[Shep]
She didn’t believe it was a real danger.

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Shep]
And now the daughter’s in danger, and she’s gonna spread that danger to other people. There is almost an allegory here, but I can’t think of what.

[Emily]
Right.

[Thomas]
Something about sourdough. I’m not sure. I’m not sure.

[Shep]
Yes. Something about sourdough! Thomas, this works on so many levels. This is a classic Emily episode.

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Emily]
It is. It’s got witches, and someone dies. It’s perfect.

[Shep]
Oh, several people are going to die.

[Emily]
Oh, is this the dark, like, more violent prequel?

[Shep]
I mean, is it more violent because it’s set before movies calm down? Or is it more violent because it’s trying to stand out among movies these days?

[Thomas]
Right. It’s because every sequel’s got to ramp it up.

[Emily]
Yeah.

[Thomas]
And if the sequel is a prequel, you still got to ramp it up.

[Shep]
Yeah, it doesn’t make any sense.

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Emily]
Oh, I was gonna say: is the malevolent force or Fae following Poppy? Do we need to know how or when she acquired it necessarily? Or can that be revealed later as they’re figuring out what’s going on?

[Thomas]
That might actually be something that helps them trap it or get rid of it or something is figuring that out.

[Emily]
So we should figure it out.

[Shep]
Yes, we should know so that we can reveal it later in the movie in a flashback.

[Emily]
Right.

[Shep]
To earlier in time.

[Thomas]
Right.

[Shep]
But at the beginning, all indications should be that Poppy is the danger.

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Emily]
There’s something wrong with that demonic child. Okay.

[Shep]
Yes.

[Thomas]
So does that make then the mid-second act turning point? Is the reveal that Poppy is not the danger or is that an end of the first act thing?

[Emily]
Yeah. I think it’s a better mid-second act turning point. The end of the first act should be a death. Someone should die. And it looks like Poppy did it.

[Shep]
Right.

[Thomas]
Okay.

[Emily]
Or is-

[Thomas]
Is the cause of it.

[Emily]
Yeah.

[Thomas]
Right.

[Emily]
Responsible for it.

[Thomas]
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Emily]
Yeah.

[Thomas]
So we know why Maggie left and sort of stays away from Rose. Why are they coming back to visit? Is this just a thing they do every once in a while? Is there a particular reason or event that’s happening?

[Shep]
Oh, there could be, like, a family ritual tradition. Maggie did it when she was younger, but, like, it really put her off on that magic hoo-ha. And so has been putting it off for Poppy. And Rose keeps insisting that Poppy’s in danger. “You’re in danger. You gotta come and do this thing. Everybody does it. I did it. You know, my mom did it. It’s. You did it even. And you’re not… your daughter.” Oh, I’m just doing the allegory again. God damn it. It slips in so easy. Anyway, that’s what I was thinking. This is a reason that they came back.

[Thomas]
Yeah. Well, it could be like a protection spell.

[Shep]
Yes. Meg is begrudgingly finally bringing Poppy to Rose.

[Thomas]
Has Maggie noticed any sort of an evil presence? Or is it only when they get to Rose’s and the wind chimes start chiming that there’s a sense that there’s an evil?

[Shep]
Oh!

[Emily]
I feel like there should be like something that’s causing them to- She’s more open to it because at home something’s going wrong. Not necessarily like drastically wrong, but things aren’t going well. And so she’s like, “Let’s go to my home and I can clear my head. Grandma’s been wanting to do this. Just give it to her.”

[Shep]
I think Maggie is in denial.

[Thomas]
Right.

[Shep]
Like, she was taught magic as a kid growing up, but now, as an adult, chooses not to believe it, doesn’t go to church anymore.

[Emily]
Yeah.

[Shep]
Whatever.

[Thomas]
Is Maggie gluten-free?

[Shep]
That is a wonderful little throwaway line to put in and never draw attention to it. And it’s just another thing. As you rewatch the series, you go, “Oh, my god. Rose was a baker. Poppy was a baker, and Maggie, in between, was gluten-free. She broke the chain. She broke the tradition. It all makes sense. This is why everything went bad later for Poppy.” It works so well, and you don’t have to draw attention to it at all.

[Thomas]
It’s because she didn’t eat flour. This different kind of “flower” is all.

[Shep]
It also works! It works on so many levels. Oh, god, we’re just starting this story, and I already love it so much.

[Thomas]
Well. Good. Good. Sorry, what were you saying about the malevolent force and Maggie?

[Shep]
Oh, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Thomas]
I got you off track. I’m sorry.

[Shep]
It’s dangerous. Okay. Maggie used to know this stuff, but is in denial, and she chooses to not believe in magic.

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Shep]
So something has happened to Poppy, and she’s different now. She has this malevolent force within her. But Maggie is like, “Oh, she’s a teenager.”

[Thomas]
Right.

[Shep]
She’s a rebellious kid, and she keeps doing all this messed-up stuff, but she’s just at that age. And, like, when she’s talking to Rose about it, Rose is like, “You need to bring that child here.” Thomas, what are you saying?

[Thomas]
She’s gotta run away from home at some point.

[Shep]
Oh, yes, obviously. Oh, god damn. It’s so poetic. In fact, she could have run away earlier.

[Thomas]
Yes.

[Shep]
And been caught. And now Maggie is taking Poppy out of the city and going to see Rose because she doesn’t know how to handle this child.

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Emily]
Perfect.

[Shep]
And it’s again, another little detail you can just slip in.

[Thomas]
So is that the inciting incident or is that a thing that happened before the movie started that we hear about?

[Shep]
It happened before the movie started.

[Thomas]
Okay.

[Shep]
It’s the inciting incident in the sense that this is why they’re going to Rose’s.

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Shep]
They’re getting out of the city. Because in the city where Poppy grew up, which is another great little thing, she didn’t grow up in this small town. As a kid, she was in the big city. She had, she knows too many, she has too many contacts, she’s got too many resources.

[Thomas]
Sure.

[Shep]
If she runs away, she can get pretty far.

[Emily]
All right.

[Shep]
But if you-

[Thomas]
Yep.

[Shep]
If you take her out to the woods, take her out to this tiny little town in the middle of nowhere where the only person she knows is her grandmother, if she tries to run away again, she’ll just walk down the endless street and get picked up by the sheriff named Gary, who’s going to drive her back to her grandma’s house.

[Thomas]
Right.

[Shep]
This is how she and Gary meet.

[Emily]
It’s exactly what I was imagining. She does this. She leaves thinking she’s gonna get away, catch a bus…

[Shep]
She thinks she’s gonna catch a bus. She thinks there are buses in this town because she only lived in the city.

[Thomas]
That’s good. So Rose lives on a farm like a couple miles outside of the main town. And there’s like nothing. There’s nothing in between her house and the town.

[Emily]
Yeah.

[Shep]
Yeah, yeah.

[Emily]
Except for the cranberry bog.

[Thomas]
Right.

[Shep]
When you see the town later, people could be selling cranberry juice that, you know, grown locally and whatever, just in the background.

[Thomas]
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

[Shep]
Don’t call attention to it.

[Thomas]
Yep. Very good. So is the inciting incident then, is the wind chimes chiming for the first time, and Rose noticing that and being really taken aback or concerned?

[Shep]
Well, if this is like how we did the other ones, as far as I can remember, the main witch kind of knows what’s going on.

[Emily]
Yeah.

[Thomas]
Right.

[Emily]
She knows what’s up.

[Shep]
And she probably had an idea just from Maggie’s phone calls.

[Thomas]
Hmm.

[Shep]
So when the car drives up and all of the wind chimes on the sides of the driveway start shaking, in, you know, time with the car passing, Rose is like, “Ah, yeah.” She’s like- She’s just sipping her tea and nodding. She’s like, “I got it. I know exactly what’s going on.” So she probably has a plan right from the beginning. Oh. Oh, sorry. I want to change a thing.

[Thomas]
Okay.

[Shep]
Rose thinks she knows what’s going on, and she’s wrong.

[Emily]
Right.

[Thomas]
Right. Yeah.

[Shep]
It’s much more severe than she thought.

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Shep]
She thinks it’s some mischievous imp that latches onto kids, which is, like, her explanation of why kids are rebellious because they’re vulnerable during this period in their time in their lives.

[Thomas]
Right. She thinks it’s chickenpox, but actually it’s measles.

[Emily]
Yeah.

[Thomas]
We. Yeah, it works with the allegory.

[Shep]
Yes. Yes. Oh, no. It works a little too well. Oh… Sorry. I’m just in shock at how right and correct you are.

[Thomas]
I like that, though, because then again, you kind of get that, oh, it’s this imp or it’s Poppy. It’s something small.

[Emily]
Right.

[Thomas]
And then we get that turning point to the end of the first act where a person dies, and it’s like, oh, it’s not what we thought. Something else is going on. And that really kicks off the next major phase of the story. So I really like that.

[Thomas]
What are the interventions that Rose attempts in the first act that seem like they’re working at first, or… Does she have, like, salves or special pastries or something like that that she’s using to try to expel the imp? Or I think maybe that’s what she tries in the first act. And then once it’s clear that it’s not like, take a pill and your problem is solved, it becomes more like Poppy has to learn magic.

[Emily]
Yeah.

[Thomas]
She has to start to be educated in this world so that she can have the tools. It’s almost like going to physical therapy. You got to do the work to fix the thing. You can’t just pop a pill and have it cure you.

[Shep]
Right. But Maggie’s opposed to magic, so they’re at odds.

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Shep]
Even though this would save her daughter, she is so opposed, she’s putting her daughter in jeopardy by opposing this.

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Shep]
So I think at the beginning, Rose thinks she knows what it is, and she’s trying to not cross the line with Maggie. Maggie finally came back. She’s been away for a long time. She’s, like, cut off contact with her mom, but she’s finally, they’re finally talking again.

[Thomas]
Sure.

[Shep]
She doesn’t want to mess this up, but she also wants to take care of this thing that she knows how to fix. And she’s like, “I’m just going to fix this real quick.”

[Emily]
Hmm.

[Shep]
She gives Poppy, like, a special tea drink. And just to see how she responds, she gets out, like, silver silverware. A silver silver spoon to stir the tea. See if she reacts to the silver.

[Thomas]
Maybe some special cookies.

[Shep]
She’s. She’s done-

[Emily]
Yeah.

[Shep]
Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So she’s Dr. House-ing the situation.

[Thomas]
Yes.

[Shep]
She’s, she’s running these tests, you know, she’s quote, unquote, “spills” some something that she’s working on. She’s pretending like she’s cooking, but it’s actually herbs of some kind.

[Thomas]
Right.

[Shep]
It’s like, “Oh, look out.” And then throws it at Poppy just to see how she responds. And, like, thinks she’s got it figured out. “Okay. It’s this kind of Fae. They’re about this strong.”

[Shep]
“From talking to Maggie, Poppy started rebelling two months ago. So it hasn’t been around for very long. It’s easy to deal with. I could probably take care of this on my own without involving Maggie.”

[Thomas]
Mm.

[Shep]
That’s as far as I got.

[Thomas]
Okay. But then who dies? Some, somebody dies, right?

[Shep]
It’s gotta be someone, like, it can’t be one of the law enforcement people.

[Thomas]
Nope.

[Emily]
No.

[Shep]
We can’t do that every episode.

[Thomas]
Look, I already tried to make Breadmaker into practical magic the whole time. We can’t do that again here.

[Emily]
Can it be like, so Maggie’s back. She grew up here. Can it be one of her old beaus or-

[Thomas]
Well, see, that’s why I was thinking Gary would be the person that she knows. We could bring in another character from that cohort and, you know, maybe they all went to school together and…

[Emily]
Yet.

[Shep]
Oh. Oh. I was thinking. So this is a friend of Gary and Maggie’s. Like you said, they all went to school together.

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Shep]
But she also goes out and hangs out with Rose, who is kind of like an adoptive mom to her. She always wanted to learn Magic. She really believes in it, but she doesn’t have the ability. So she believes in it but can’t practice it.

[Thomas]
Sure.

[Shep]
She dies.

[Emily]
Perfect.

[Thomas]
Okay.

[Shep]
Because she’s connected to all the other characters.

[Emily]
Yeah.

[Shep]
So it’s an important loss.

[Emily]
And she can do whatever mortal magic, non-magic people are allowed to do. You know, like sagey stuff and…

[Shep]
Oh, she can realize how dangerous it is before Rose because she tried to learn all the stuff.

[Emily]
Right.

[Thomas]
Oh, yeah. So she’s been very studious about all the different things.

[Shep]
Right.

[Thomas]
That’s good.

[Shep]
So she can identify what it is. And that is what seals her death sentence because that information cannot be leaked.

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Shep]
So when she figures it out, she’s trying to get a message to Rose or to Maggie. And then the Fae is trying to stop her and succeeds, and kills her.

[Thomas]
Yeah. Well, let’s take a break here, and when we come back, we’ll figure out how Maggie, Poppy, and Rose all work together to stop this malevolent attachment in our story about Wind Chimes.

[Break]

[Thomas]
Alright, we’re back. We just had our first death of the movie. Did we ever name this character? We should come up with a name for her.

[Emily]
We did not figure name, but we can give her one. It can’t be a flower because she doesn’t have the magic.

[Thomas]
Right.

[Shep]
Her real name is not a flower, but she has a flower name that she introduces herself as because she really wants to be magic.

[Thomas]
Is there something that is a fake flower?

[Emily]
Not a real flower?

[Thomas]
Yeah. A false flower of some sort.

[Shep]
I mean, there are flowers that are fake other things.

[Thomas]
I mean, like, is there a plant that is a colorful plant, it looks like it is a flower, but it isn’t technically a flower?

[Emily]
She could do something where it’s like what we consider a weed but is actually a flower. You know, like a dandelion.

[Thomas]
Right.

[Emily]
Or she could go by Dandelion, but I can’t think of necessarily weed flowers that are appealing in name that someone would choose to go by.

[Shep]
I mean, Dandy is a fine name. Fine and Dandy.

[Thomas]
I mean, does it matter? Does this character even need a name?

[Shep]
They’re in the movie for a chunk, right? They’re in the movie for half the movie.

[Emily]
Yeah.

[Thomas]
Yeah, but are we gonna-

[Emily]
Because we gotta get to know her and we have to care a little bit.

[Thomas]
Are we gonna talk about her anymore?

[Emily]
Yeah. We gotta reference her.

[Shep]
This, it could be a problem for the writers.

[Thomas]
Yeah, I think it might be.

[Emily]
Okay.

[Shep]
But for now, let’s call her Dandelion or Dandy as a stand-in for whatever clever name-

[Thomas]
It could be Dani. D A N I.

[Shep]
Dani?

[Thomas]
Danny.

[Shep]
Dani Lion? That’s. Yeah.

[Emily]
She’s very hippie dressing now. You know, the beads and the long wavy hair. She looks a lot like a wannabe Stevie Nicks.

[Thomas]
Right.

[Emily]
Like clearly not as cool.

[Thomas]
Because this is about that time frame, so I think that works really well.

[Shep]
She comes over to Rosa’s house and Poppy opens the door and she introduces herself as Dani or Dandelion. And then Maggie sees her and dead names her as Jane.

[Thomas]
Hmm. That’s good.

[Shep]
That’s it. That’s the only detail I wanted to add.

[Thomas]
Okay.

[Emily]
And she’s like- “No, it’s Dandy now.” “Dani?” “No, Dandy like as in Dandelion.”

[Shep]
“We’ve talked about this, remember? It’s like you don’t even read my Facebook posts.”

[Thomas]
I think we also need to meet Gary in that first act. Right? Because-

[Emily]
Oh, yeah. He’s gonna be at the bakery.

[Shep]
Oh, I thought, see, because I thought Poppy would run away from Rose’s.

[Thomas]
Exactly.

[Emily]
Oh, okay.

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Shep]
So maybe she runs away while Dandy is there distracting Maggie.

[Emily]
Distracting her mother.

[Thomas]
Hmm.

[Shep]
Yes.

[Thomas]
Good.

[Shep]
There’s someone else came over.

[Thomas]
Yes.

[Shep]
There must be civilization near enough to get here.

[Thomas]
Ah, yes.

[Shep]
Just logically, it’s got to be close by.

[Thomas]
So that’s first act, Dandy dies. You said, we said before the break that Dandy was trying to get Rose a message. Is she successful in that?

[Shep]
Well, how tragic do you want her death to be?

[Thomas]
Medium tragic?

[Emily]
Can it be, she is successful in getting the message there, but is she successful in conveying it well? Is what I want it to be.

[Shep]
That’s also what I was going to say. So she gets the message and Rose doesn’t understand it until later.

[Thomas]
Sure.

[Emily]
Right.

[Shep]
When the reveal, she’s like, “Oh, I get it now.”

[Thomas]
Okay.

[Emily]
Yeah.

[Shep]
Shortly before she dies. You know, that’s the-

[Emily]
Right.

[Thomas]
Right. But at this point in time, at the beginning of the second act, what does Rose know? What has she figured out?

[Shep]
That it’s something Fae. And she thinks it’s a minor sprite.

[Emily]
Yeah. It’s not, it’s not just hormones.

[Shep]
It’s not just hormones.

[Thomas]
Well, but I kind of thought that was what we had said. She’d already kind of had that suspicion anyway during the first act.

[Shep]
Right.

[Thomas]
And so now there’s this death. And that ramps up that-

[Shep]
Oh, she might not even put the death together with what this is. In fact, she’s like, “Let’s put this to bed and fix this real quick because I have to go help Gary investigate this unusual death. So I don’t have time to be dealing with my granddaughter and my rebellious daughter who doesn’t believe in magic, even though it’s obviously real. Like I’ve basically figured it out. I mean, there were more tests that I could have done, but I’m gonna quickly do the ceremony and clear up Poppy’s, whatever, minor Fae infection and then go and help Gary because my friend died and I want to know why.”

[Thomas]
So does Rose… We said up to this point that she’s trying to sort of be respectful of that boundary that Maggie has set. Does this incident cause her to sort of take a step over that and do a larger spell than she has previously done up to this point?

[Shep]
Yeah.

[Emily]
Yeah.

[Thomas]
Something that Maggie kind of wouldn’t approve of?

[Shep]
Right.

[Emily]
This could be the-

[Shep]
She doesn’t have time.

[Thomas]
Right, exactly. Yeah.

[Shep]
I’m sorry. Go ahead.

[Emily]
I was gonna say she doesn’t have time and it’s sort of a… “Oh, yeah. Shit gets real.”

[Thomas]
Yes.

[Emily]
“I gotta do something before it gets worse for Poppy so she doesn’t end up like Dandy.”

[Shep]
Right. Like, “I’ve been holding my breath for three days out of politeness.”

[Thomas]
Right.

[Shep]
“But I’ve got a shout. So-“

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Emily]
Yeah.

[Shep]
It’s. The time for holding breath is over.

[Thomas]
So that’s from the beginning of the second act. So between there and the mid-second act turning point, sort of the investigation and the Fae is maybe becoming more mischievous, and we’re seeing more things going wrong, not just on the farm, but in the town as well.

[Emily]
There has to be a false sense of conclusion with Poppy first.

[Shep]
Yes. Emily and I are so on the same page. We’re finishing each other’s sandwiches.

[Emily]
Yeah. So, yeah, there’s. There’s some ramping up, but no one in the immediate family or investigation can notice it right away.

[Thomas]
Okay.

[Shep]
Right. And it seems that Poppy is cured.

[Emily]
Yeah.

[Shep]
And so Rose is free to investigate whatever. And meanwhile, Poppy is no longer being as tightly scrutinized as before and is also now free to go be mischievous. And then we as the audience don’t necessarily know that it’s Poppy yet. I mean, anyone who’s seen a movie probably has got an idea.

[Emily]
Right. You and I know.

[Shep]
Right.

[Emily]
My daughter. She has no clue.

[Shep]
Yeah. It’ll be an amazing twist if you’re 14.

[Emily]
Yeah.

[Thomas]
So is Poppy now going into town and stuff? So we’re starting to see things happening in town. So now Rose and Gary are saying, “Oh, these things are cropping up around town.” So they’re investigating, they don’t realize they’re investigating things in the wake of Poppy having been there.

[Shep]
I have a question.

[Thomas]
Yes.

[Shep]
Now that we have previously established exactly how far away town is.

[Emily]
Hmm.

[Shep]
How is Poppy getting there?

[Emily]
It’s an uncomfortable walk. Right? That’s what we’ve decided.

[Shep]
It would be an uncomfortably long walk.

[Emily]
What about a bike ride?

[Thomas]
Yeah. Did Dandy die at the farm? And her bike is still there?

[Shep]
I mean, that would be an obvious thing that people would suspect. I was thinking, could we introduce magic in Poppy at this point?

[Thomas]
Hmm.

[Shep]
Like, she’s using magic to get to town, which she should in no way be able to do.

[Emily]
Oh, okay. Because the Fae is helping her with that.

[Thomas]
Hmm. Okay.

[Shep]
The Fae is doing it.

[Thomas]
Yeah. And of course Poppy’s keeping her damn mouth shut about this. Because: Cool.

[Emily]
Okay. So she’s aware of some of the stuff happening. Is she aware of like, doing the bad things or being there?

[Shep]
Well, it’s, um…

[Emily]
It’s just traveling with her. Right?

[Shep]
I was thinking it’s like our Hundred Dollar Bill episode, where she’s going and being a little mischievous, but in her wake is some real tragedy.

[Emily]
Okay.

[Shep]
So she’ll go in and play a prank on someone and then they’ll die horrifically, Final Destination-style.

[Emily]
Perfect. Okay.

[Thomas]
So the mid-second-act turning point we decided is Rose figuring out Poppy’s not cured. It’s this really destructive, evil, malevolent Fae. There’s more to be done here, right?

[Emily]
Yeah. Because more bodies are piling up and out at this point and then they finally make the connection.

[Thomas]
Yeah. And so things continue to get worse somehow until we get to the lowest low. And then I think after the lowest low is when we finally get Maggie on board with like, “Okay, we need three witches. We’ve got to all do the magic.” Does that seem sensible?

[Shep]
So Poppy is one of the witches doing the magic, even though she also has the Fae in her?

[Thomas]
That’s a good point.

[Shep]
I mean, I don’t object and I think it’s fine, especially if she now wants to learn magic. Like, she’ll be giving up this power.

[Emily]
Well, I’m torn. Because I feel like the lowest low would be Rose dying and then it feeling like nothing can be saved.

[Thomas]
Oh, yeah.

[Shep]
I thought that would be the end.

[Emily]
And then Maggie has to take over the mantle in order to save… She couldn’t save her mother because she refused to do the magic.

[Thomas]
Right.

[Emily]
She has to save her daughter. She has to do the magic.

[Shep]
I think that that’s just fantasy thinking, though. She hasn’t learned the magic, she- It’s too late. It’s too late to start now. Like, the window has closed. In fact, maybe she’s why Rose dies, because she’s not holding up her end of the triangle.

[Emily]
Okay.

[Thomas]
Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Emily]
That works for me too.

[Shep]
And now she’s full of regret. Like, Rose succeeds in dispelling the Fae, but was mortally wounded, so they have enough time to have her final words.

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Emily]
You got Thomas all excited. Look at him.

[Thomas]
Well, what I was thinking is, it’s not that she succeeds in dispelling the Fae, it’s that she succeeds in divorcing the Fae from Poppy. They’ve been attached, and so now-

[Emily]
All right.

[Shep]
Oh, I know what he’s going to say.

[Thomas]
Now they’re not attached anymore.

[Shep]
Yep.

[Thomas]
So now it’s not that, “Oh, we have to exorcise this from Poppy.” Poppy can now be, you know, one of the witches that’s contributing.

[Shep]
So, have we established that the cops know about witches and what’s going on? I can’t remember.

[Emily]
Well, Gary does.

[Thomas]
I love how we are all hitting on the same- We’re all beating the same drum here. Because I was going to say the same thing that Gary- Because we’ve established in the earlier movies or the later movies, you know what I mean.

[Shep]
Right.

[Thomas]
The previous movies, that Gary knows about it. This is how Gary knows and believes.

[Shep]
I think Gary already knows. And believes.

[Emily]
Yeah. Because Gary was a little bit in love with Maggie growing up.

[Thomas]
Oh, sure.

[Emily]
Like, just the big crush. And he used to hang out at their house a lot.

[Shep]
Right. Which is you can tell when they talk to each other. He’s very giggly. And he’s just very happy to see Maggie again.

[Emily]
Yeah. And Rose has been maternal to him this whole time, so he’s, he’s known, he’s seen, he’s felt everything.

[Shep]
Right. Because Rose is maternal to every- She’s the town’s grandma.

[Thomas]
Right. So whenever Rose has hosted out-of-town witches or nearby witches in the same area, the same region, Gary knows who they are. And so when Maggie can’t perform the spells and Poppy can’t do this by herself, Gary knows who to call. Gary knows where they live. Gary can help bring other witches in to help deal with this force.

[Emily]
That makes his death in Cranberry Sauce all the sadder.

[Shep]
Yeah. That’s what you do prequels for, is to put more hooks in people so that when they watch them in a different order later, they watch them in timeline order.

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Shep]
It’s extra sad. Because we’re powered by the audience’s tears.

[Thomas]
That’s right.

[Shep]
You know this.

[Emily]
I do. They are delicious.

[Shep]
So I was thinking Gary knows something’s up and puts it together that it’s probably Poppy. And he’s got, like, silver bullets for these kinds of situations.

[Shep]
So he is coming out with his gun full of silver bullets and he’s gonna shoot Poppy because he’s gotta stop- He’s got- His duty is to protect the town. She’s not from here. Rose is from here. And she’s Rose’s granddaughter. So I’d prefer not to have to do that. But if Rose can’t stop her, I can with a gun. So now you have a ticking clock. They have to get this out of Poppy before Gary gets here. That’s the setup. So Rose gets it out of Poppy. So they are briefly, the three of them-

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Shep]
Able to form the triangle and trap it in her cast-iron thing.

[Thomas]
Yep.

[Emily]
Yeah.

[Shep]
But they can’t kill it. They can only temporarily hold it in place. How does Rose die? I was thinking that she takes in the Fae and Gary shoots her.

[Emily]
That had crossed my mind that that would be the sacrifice.

[Thomas]
Wow. That would be such an intense moment.

[Emily]
Yeah. Everyone’s sad. Everyone’s sad. It’s Poppy’s fault. She brought this thing home. It’s Maggie’s fault. She didn’t learn the ways. Gary has to shoot his grandma and his big crush’s mom.

[Shep]
Yep.

[Thomas]
But I like that moment of Rose is sort of like being attacked internally. Right? And there’s that hesitation on Gary’s part where he knows what he needs to do.

[Emily]
Maybe she’ll make it through.

[Thomas]
“I- I don’t want to.” Yeah. He’s trying to give her a chance and she just gives him this look, this very calm look. And is like, “It’s okay.”

[Shep]
Or there is some phrase that you can call back, that’s a problem for the writers.

[Thomas]
Yeah, right.

[Emily]
Yeah.

[Shep]
What exactly. She says it’s just, you gotta make-

[Thomas]
Yes.

[Shep]
You gotta turn that knife as much as you can.

[Thomas]
Yes.

[Shep]
So what Rose has done before this is she’s taught a binding spell to her daughter and granddaughter. Like, “Here’s what you need to do.” So they have to keep doing this magic to hold her in place because she’s not going to be able to.

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Shep]
She’s going to try and fight it internally, but she will also flee if she can.

[Thomas]
Right.

[Shep]
So they have to basically hold her down while Gary shoots her to death.

[Emily]
Yep.

[Thomas]
Oh boy.

[Shep]
So all three are taking part. And if any one of them didn’t, then Rose would live, but the Fae would get away.

[Thomas]
Man. So there’s this moment right after Gary shoots Rose and Rose dies. And there’s that like emotional collapse moment where they’re all just so drained. And then it turns out the Fae wasn’t killed.

[Shep]
No, no, no! You can’t do Rose dirty like that. We already had the fake-out earlier.

[Thomas]
But that’s the lowest low. If the lowest low is Rose dies or is that.

[Emily]
Now.

[Shep]
I thought the lowest low was earlier. I thought this was the big climax.

[Thomas]
Okay.

[Emily]
I think if we’re gonna go this way, it should be the climax.

[Thomas]
Okay.

[Emily]
Although I do love a good: the monster didn’t really die.

[Shep]
I mean, you can put a teaser in, set up a sequel. Even though we already have two other sequels.

[Thomas]
What then is the lowest low, for my own edification?

[Shep]
Run through the whole story again.

[Thomas]
I don’t remember.

[Emily]
I don’t think we actually established one, because I had suggested-

[Shep]
Oh, the lowest low is Dandelion dying and failing to get the message to Rose. Actually getting the message, but it not being clear.

[Thomas]
Well, that’s the end of the first act.

[Shep]
Oh.

[Emily]
Can somebody else die at the end of the first act then? And then save Dandelion for that?

[Shep]
Yeah, yeah. Actually, that would be better because then you establish that something is killing people and we haven’t established what it is yet.

[Thomas]
And these are just sort of like NPC-type people that we don’t care about.

[Emily]
Yeah.

[Thomas]
They’re just townspeople.

[Shep]
Just townies. Thomas says it’s okay to kill townies. You heard it here.

[Thomas]
But we don’t have that, as the audience, we don’t have that emotional connection with anyone who gets killed that early.

[Emily]
Yeah.

[Shep]
It’s the beginning of It or whatever. You know, it’s just a guy taking out the trash and then he hears a sound, and he like, “Is that, you know, you, Roscoe?” It’s his dog. And he goes behind the house and Roscoe’s torn into pieces.

[Emily]
It’s never Roscoe.

[Shep]
Right. And then he’s horrifically murdered. But you don’t see it. It’s just a thing going on. You don’t care. It doesn’t need to be shown that much because he wasn’t shown that much. But it’s just establishing whatever this is, it’s in town.

[Thomas]
Yeah. So then this other person, Dandy, who we’ve learned who they are, we’ve grown to like them, then they die later and it’s like, “Oh, that sucks. We care more.”

[Shep]
Right. This death is important.

[Thomas]
Right. All right, what else does our story need? Anything else?

[Shep]
It needs an ending. Like what happens after Rose’s death.

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Shep]
I mean, there’s all epilogue stuff.

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Emily]
Yeah. The epilogue is Rose died. Maggie chooses to stay on and keep the bakery open while Poppy learns the magic. Because it’s too late for Maggie.

[Thomas]
Right. So Maggie can kind of like run the business while Poppy bakes the magical goods.

[Emily]
Yep. Yep.

[Shep]
Right.

[Thomas]
So is the bread maker destroyed in the fight?

[Shep]
Yeah. And then they go buy a regular bread maker because they don’t know how to use that oven-based bread maker anyway.

[Thomas]
Right.

[Shep]
And then the one they go buy is the one we see from Bread Maker.

[Thomas]
Yes.

[Emily]
Yeah.

[Thomas]
Perfect. So maybe this is too late to bring this up. Gary is younger in this one. Is there an older sheriff? So that later we have older sheriff/younger sheriff. And then in the prequel, we also have older sheriff/younger sheriff.

[Shep]
Right, Right.

[Emily]
Great.

[Shep]
So you don’t see the older sheriff like going out and doing stuff. You see him maybe a couple times.

[Thomas]
Right.

[Shep]
Gary talks to him when he’s in town or whatever.

[Thomas]
Yeah. When the investigation stuff is happening, he’ll be there, but he’s not a major character.

[Shep]
I’m just picturing him like just staying in his office.

[Thomas]
Oh, sure.

[Shep]
He knows the witchy stuff is going on, but he’s got a couple younger guys and they go out and take care of everything.

[Thomas]
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Shep]
But when Gary needs the silver bullets, he goes to his boss and his boss has like a locked drawer in his desk, and he opens up the drawer and he pulls out this engraved box and he opens it up and that’s got the silver bullets in it. Like it’s more, they’re more than just silver. They’re magic bullets.

[Emily]
Right.

[Shep]
So the sheriff knows what’s going on. The deputies know, like, this is obviously this is not a thing- In fact, when you open it, it’s got a bunch of bullets and only three are missing, you know, so it’s like a thing they don’t have to use very often, but it’s there just in case. And probably they got this from Rose.

[Emily]
And the sheriff’s got a great line of, “Are you sure you know what you’re doing? You sure you want to do this,” kind of thing?

[Shep]
Oh, yeah. Because maybe this is Gary’s first time-

[Emily]
Yeah.

[Shep]
With the silver bullets.

[Thomas]
We did in the Bread Maker episode before we had named Gary, we talked about him having bad knees from chasing criminals in the big city. But we haven’t written the movie yet, so, you know. So Maggie is just there trying to get Poppy established, and then her and Gary will move back to-

[Emily]
Yeah. There’s that option.

[Thomas]
They’ll hook up and they’ll move back to the city, and Poppy will stay. Like, they live there for a few years. And then once Poppy’s in her 20s and established, then Maggie’s like, “I’m a city girl.” Like-

[Emily]
And he’s like, “But I love you, so I’ll go.”

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Emily]
And then they break up or she dies.

[Thomas]
Or whatever.

[Emily]
Whatever.

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Shep]
So, Gary is Poppy’s stepdad?

[Emily]
Yeah. That’s what the big reveal.

[Shep]
We never-

[Emily]
That’s the big surprise.

[Shep]
Never. Because they were close before.

[Thomas]
Right.

[Emily]
Yeah.

[Shep]
I mean, they’re not romantically close because they’re not close in age, but there is a closeness between them.

[Thomas]
Right. No.

[Shep]
And we thought, “Oh, it’s just an understanding. He’s an- He’s got- He knows what’s going on with the witches.”

[Thomas]
No. It was like an avuncular relationship.

[Shep]
But he is her stepdad. They’ve actually known each other for, you know, since she was younger.

[Thomas]
Right.

[Emily]
Yeah.

[Shep]
Okay. It really recontextualizes. Now I want to go back and rewatch those later movies.

[Emily]
Now knowing that he was her stepdad the whole time.

[Shep]
Right. Yep.

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Emily]
Or stepdad figure, because maybe they don’t actually get married, but still.

[Shep]
Right. So now when I go back and watch the first movie, when they kiss that one time, it’s much worse.

[Thomas]
Since we have now moved Dandelion’s death later in the film, is there other stuff she does in the second act to contribute to the story?

[Emily]
Oh, sure.

[Shep]
Oh, there’s tons of things. So she, like, she knows how to help prepare the ingredients for stuff. And she even offers to be one of the three. She tells Rose, “I could be one of the three.” And Rose is like, like, “You actually can’t. I appreciate your heart is in the right place, but.”

[Emily]
Well, yeah. And that’s why she’s doing the research, to reveal that it is, in fact-

[Shep]
Right.

[Emily]
Not this simple malevolent force to be just poo pooed away.

[Shep]
Right.

[Thomas]
Is her death a result of her attempting to do something? Like, she sees what’s going on. Or is it just because she’s trying to get a message to Rose and the Fae realizes that and causes her to die?

[Shep]
I think it’s that one. So she realizes what’s going on, and then the Fae, who’s keeping an eye on her-

[Thomas]
Right.

[Shep]
Like, “Oh, she has to die.” And so she’s like, trying to get a message out and, like, tries various things, you know, tries to send a text, tries to call, tries to whatever. She’s able to leave a message. But it’s not like, “Here’s what it actually is.” It’s like, It’s like a coded-

[Thomas]
Right. When she says, “Here’s what it actually is,” it doesn’t work because the Fae is stopping it, so she has to leave some coded message. That gets through?

[Shep]
Right. But Rose doesn’t interpret it correctly until it’s too late.

[Thomas]
Right, Right.

[Shep]
That’s what makes Dandy’s death all the more tragic. It’s Romeo and Juliet, where if they could just properly communicate, not everyone would die.

[Thomas]
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Anything else? Or are we good?

[Shep]
We established that Poppy is traveling through magic, but we never explained what. Is she riding a broom? Is she turning into a shadow? Like, is she teleporting? It’s just, “Oh, it’s magic.”

[Thomas]
Ah, that’s a problem for the writers.

[Shep]
You’re right. It is a problem for the writers. You’re right.

[Emily]
It’s a type of teleportation where she bends it so the distance is shorter.

[Shep]
That’s a very Fae way to travel.

[Thomas]
We did say that her traveling was being assisted by the Fae because it also wants to move around, so.

[Shep]
This is why she doesn’t have these abilities-

[Thomas]
Right.

[Shep]
Later.

[Emily]
Later.

[Shep]
Because these aren’t her abilities. This isn’t her magic.

[Thomas]
Yet another clue for people who watch the films in release order, so that you’re like, “Well, why didn’t she do this in the first film?”

[Shep]
Right.

[Thomas]
Because she couldn’t.

[Shep]
Right.

[Thomas]
Well, we’d love to hear your thoughts on today’s episode about Wind Chimes. Did it put wind in your sails or are we just a bunch of windbags?

[Shep]
We forgot to call back to the wind chimes.

[Thomas]
Oh.

[Shep]
I had mental scenes earlier, like when the Fae is traveling around separate from Poppy. So Poppy’s not setting off the wind chimes. In fact, there are different times throughout the movie when the wind chimes are going off around Poppy and when they aren’t.

[Emily]
Oh, okay.

[Shep]
So it’s another clue.

[Thomas]
Yeah, that’s good.

[Shep]
About when the Fae is around and when it isn’t. And so when they do the minor exorcism and the wind chimes stop responding, Rose is like, “Ah, good. Job done.” But it’s not. The Fae’s not banished, it’s just in hiding.

[Shep]
It has just left.

[Thomas]
Yeah, that’s good. You can let us know by leaving a comment on our website, reaching out on social media, or sending us an email. Links to all of those can be found at AlmostPlausible.com. We would love for more people to get wind of this podcast.

[Shep]
That sounds… okay.

[Thomas]
Not get wind from listening to the podcast. And if everyone who listens recommends Almost Plausible to just one person, we would double our listenership. So do us a favor and tell someone about the show. Thank you. Emily, Shep, and I will be back soon with the next episode of Almost Plausible.

[Outro music]

[Shep]
So when we talked about wind chimes as, like, a potential thing to do an episode on, that was a very long time ago. And this was the idea that had come to me, like, immediately at the time.

[Thomas]
Mm.

[Shep]
And it just sat in my brain and grew and grew and grew. So it’s. It’s about (I’m looking)… It’s about as long as all of yours combined.

[Emily]
I just remember somebody in the past complaining that they had been too fleshed out.

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Emily]
So-

[Shep]
Yes. And this is. This is really, like, a one-tenth of what I really have. I have, like, actual scenes. And…

[Thomas]
Well, if we pick yours, you can just tell us how the movie goes and we’ll sit here.

[Emily]
There we go.

[Shep]
No, this is why I didn’t include it.

[Emily]
We’ll just listen. We’ll, we’ll go make popcorn.

[Thomas]
Yeah. Yeah.

[Shep]
I kept trying to cut this down and then kept adding more detail to it. So it’s so hard, you guys. It’s so hard to distill an elevator pitch out of a larger idea.

[Emily]
Yeah, once-

[Thomas]
For sure.

[Emily]
Sometimes you get that, that idea, and you’re just like, “No, I have to-“

[Thomas]
And you’re like, “But this detail is so important. And then you need to know this other thing, though.”

[Emily]
“You have to know. You won’t understand if I don’t tell you.”

[Thomas]
Yeah.